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Author Topic: Some clarification would be nice  (Read 4709 times)

HollowOak

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Some clarification would be nice
« on: September 24, 2008, 01:34:28 pm »

Andrew blogged on the Official Prosper blog regarding last night's (9/23-9-24) changes.

Something in there concerns me.  I submitted a comment on the official blog as follows:

Quote
Andrew, you say, "As of today, borrowers whose loans are 91 or more days past due (DPD) will receive a “Notice of Acceleration”. The Notice of Acceleration is a warning that their loan will be accelerated in 30 days..."

Surely this was standard even before the latest changes?  I recall seeing language in the agreements that provided for acceleration.


I really, really need someone at Prosper to tell me that they previously sent out notices of acceleration.  There has been language for that in the agreement since day 1. As such I assumed it was happening.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 01:44:37 pm by HollowOak »
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arebelspy

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2008, 01:43:06 pm »

of course they didn't.

prosper has been pumping everything they've been doing.  if they haven't mentioned it, they aren't doing it.  and even if they have mentioned it, they might not be (ex: reporting to credit agencies, following up on bks, etc)
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HollowOak

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 01:51:13 pm »

of course they didn't.

prosper has been pumping everything they've been doing.  if they haven't mentioned it, they aren't doing it.  and even if they have mentioned it, they might not be (ex: reporting to credit agencies, following up on bks, etc)

Well, bloody heck.  Paragraph 8 of the Borrower's Promissory note reads:
Quote
8. Default and Remedies. If I fail to make any payment when due in the manner required by Paragraph 7, or if receivership or insolvency proceedings or any assignment for the benefit of creditors is instituted by or against me; I die, I fail to keep any promise or meet any other obligations in this Note, or I make a material misrepresentation in connection with my loan, I will be in default and you may at your option accelerate the maturity of this Note and declare all principal, interest and other charges due under this Note immediately due and payable. If you exercise the remedy of acceleration you will not do so until one or more payments under this Note is at least 120 days past due, and you will give me at least 30 days prior notice of acceleration; provided, however, that if my default is the result of a material misrepresentation you do not need to wait until one or more payments is past due, and you do not need to give me any prior notice of acceleration.

So either Andrew is telling us nothing new and making it seem new, or .... (I don't even know what the "or" would be in this instance.
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112233

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 02:01:01 pm »

of course they didn't.

prosper has been pumping everything they've been doing.  if they haven't mentioned it, they aren't doing it.  and even if they have mentioned it, they might not be (ex: reporting to credit agencies, following up on bks, etc)

Well, bloody heck.  Paragraph 8 of the Borrower's Promissory note reads:
Quote
8. Default and Remedies. If I fail to make any payment when due in the manner required by Paragraph 7, or if receivership or insolvency proceedings or any assignment for the benefit of creditors is instituted by or against me; I die, I fail to keep any promise or meet any other obligations in this Note, or I make a material misrepresentation in connection with my loan, I will be in default and you may at your option   accelerate the maturity of this Note and declare all principal, interest and other charges due under this Note immediately due and payable. If you exercise the remedy of acceleration you will not do so until one or more payments under this Note is at least 120 days past due, and you will give me at least 30 days prior notice of acceleration; provided, however, that if my default is the result of a material misrepresentation you do not need to wait until one or more payments is past due, and you do not need to give me any prior notice of acceleration.

So either Andrew is telling us nothing new and making it seem new, or .... (I don't even know what the "or" would be in this instance.
apparently, the option used up to this point was to do nothing
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ira01

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2008, 04:24:02 pm »

of course they didn't.

prosper has been pumping everything they've been doing.  if they haven't mentioned it, they aren't doing it.  and even if they have mentioned it, they might not be (ex: reporting to credit agencies, following up on bks, etc)

Well, bloody heck.  Paragraph 8 of the Borrower's Promissory note reads:
Quote
8. Default and Remedies. If I fail to make any payment when due in the manner required by Paragraph 7, or if receivership or insolvency proceedings or any assignment for the benefit of creditors is instituted by or against me; I die, I fail to keep any promise or meet any other obligations in this Note, or I make a material misrepresentation in connection with my loan, I will be in default and you may at your option   accelerate the maturity of this Note and declare all principal, interest and other charges due under this Note immediately due and payable. If you exercise the remedy of acceleration you will not do so until one or more payments under this Note is at least 120 days past due, and you will give me at least 30 days prior notice of acceleration; provided, however, that if my default is the result of a material misrepresentation you do not need to wait until one or more payments is past due, and you do not need to give me any prior notice of acceleration.

So either Andrew is telling us nothing new and making it seem new, or .... (I don't even know what the "or" would be in this instance.
apparently, the option used up to this point was to do nothing

Yes, I think that's exactly right.  But, in this case, I don't see that as a big problem (I know that shocks everyone).  As I've posted several times for probably more than a year now, I believe that the acceleration clause was included in the Notes in order to facilitate the sales of 4-month lates to the JDBs.  No JDB is going to buy a delinquent loan without an accelration clause, because then it would be limited to only trying to collect the past due amount.  That isn't how JDBs operate.  JDBs buy bad debt for pennies on the dollar, and then try to settle with the debtor for more pennies on the dollar, thereby (they hope) making a profit.  Or, in some cases, the JDB might even file suit.  But that too is only practical with an acceleration clause, because otherwise the suit would be limited to the past due amount, not the entire loan balance.  So Prosper probably accelerated the loans it was selling to the JDB, as part of the sales process.  It probably created the "bid file" of all loans to be included, sent them all notices of acceleration, and then proceeded with the JDB sale, which, IIRC, took about 30 days anyway.  So by the time the winning JDB got the loans, they were already accelerated (or soon would be, if the sale took a little less than 30 days).  Or, perhaps, Prosper didn't do that, but the winning JDB immediately sent notices of acceleration to all the borrowers.  Either way, the JDBs' loans were soon accelerated.  Similarly, no doubt Prosper sent notices of acceleration to all the NAT borrowers as soon as it identified the list of loans included, so that by the time Prosper got around to filing the lawsuits, the entire loan balances were due. 

In contrast, acceleration really wouldn't have done Prosper or the lenders much good on other late loans.  It probably would have just made the borrowers that much more certain that they would never be able to get the loan paid off and Prosper off their back (not that Prosper was ON their back much, of course), and thus would probably have made borrowers less likely to make payments.  I suppose Prosper could have used the threat of acceleration as leverage to try to convince the borrowers to pay, but Prosper could have done that anyway without actually invoking acceleration.  Put another way, if a borrower isn't paying their $200 monthly payment, or their $800 4-month delinquency, they surely aren't going to pay their $10,000 accelerated loan balance.
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HollowOak

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2008, 10:47:59 pm »

Comment on the blog:
Quote
Author: Andrew Martinez-Fonts
Comment:
@HollowOak - No, sending a Notice of Acceleration was not standard practice before today. You are right that our legal agreements provided for acceleration, but until now, we have not taken advantage (in a systematic way) of that provision.

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Capital_Finance_Group

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 08:40:27 pm »

Comment on the blog:
Quote
Author: Andrew Martinez-Fonts
Comment:
@HollowOak - No, sending a Notice of Acceleration was not standard practice before today. You are right that our legal agreements provided for acceleration, but until now, we have not taken advantage (in a systematic way) of that provision.



Its a shame that the Lenders are paying for their on-the-job training.
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yankeefan

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Re: Some clarification would be nice
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 08:45:56 pm »

Comment on the blog:
Quote
Author: Andrew Martinez-Fonts
Comment:
@HollowOak - No, sending a Notice of Acceleration was not standard practice before today. You are right that our legal agreements provided for acceleration, but until now, we have not taken advantage (in a systematic way) of that provision.



Its a shame that the Lenders are paying for their on-the-job training.

What Ira said-  unless you're going for a judgement or the equivalent, accelerating the loan doesn't gain anything, and it does cost a llittle bit.
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