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Author Topic: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...  (Read 10558 times)

Fred93

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Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« on: December 07, 2008, 07:22:07 pm »

Fred93 has shamefully updated his blog again, with a rambling exposition on his reaction to the new Prosper SEC filing.  For the first time ever, he has quoted DakotahFury.

http://fred93blog.blogspot.com/2008/12/prospercom-new-prospectus-good-but.html

bamalucky

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2008, 07:25:17 pm »

Did you get Mjerry's permission?
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Mtnchick

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2008, 07:55:26 pm »

Excellent and as always - thanks for doing the legwork!
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112233

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 08:21:27 pm »

another DF crush? jeez ..
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DakotahFury

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2008, 08:30:28 pm »

to Fred:  :-*
I can't access blogs at my current location. What was quoted from me? I hope it was something uncharacteristically witty...and lacking grammatical errors.  ;)
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"If you are up-to-date on your vaccines today, and you avail yourself of the treatments, your chances of dying COVID are vanishingly rare and certainly much lower than your risk of getting into trouble with the flu," Jha (White House COVID-19 Response Coordinator) told NPR.

bamalucky

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 08:45:09 pm »

to Fred:  :-*
I can't access blogs at my current location. What was quoted from me? I hope it was something uncharacteristically witty...and lacking grammatical errors.  ;)


It was

Quote
Looks like I better pack my bags! I'll meet you at the bus-stop, Jerry!

Quote
The kids will look quite exotic. The bearded-mullet is one of the rarest mullets of all! 
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DakotahFury

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 08:47:30 pm »

Awwwwwesome... :)
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bamalucky

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 09:00:07 pm »

Your funds are placed in an account for your benefit at Wells Fargo Bank, which is FDIC insured.

Is this true?Because after reading the S1 i don't think it is.
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Mark12547

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 09:28:14 pm »

Your funds are placed in an account for your benefit at Wells Fargo Bank, which is FDIC insured.

Is this true?Because after reading the S1 i don't think it is.

From the revised S-1 filing,

Quote from: S-1 pages 47-48
Treatment of Lender Member Balances
 
In order to make Note purchase commitments by bidding on borrower listings, lender members must have sufficient funds in their funding account at Prosper.  This is accomplished by having each lender member authorize an electronic transfer using the Automated Clearing House, or ACH, network from the lender member’s designated and verified bank account to the account we currently maintain at Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.  “for the benefit of” our lender members.  This so-called “FBO account” is a pooled account titled in our name “for the benefit of” our lender members.

Funds in the FBO account will always be maintained at an FDIC member financial institution.  Our individual members have no direct relationship with Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. by virtue of participating on our platform as a borrower or lender member.  We maintain and administer the FBO account.  No Prosper monies are ever commingled with the assets of lender members in the FBO account.

Under the FBO account, we maintain sub-accounts for each of our lender members on our platform to track and report funds committed by lender members to purchase Notes dependent on borrower loans, as well as payments received from borrower members.  These record-keeping sub-accounts are purely administrative and reflect balances and transactions concerning the funds in the FBO account.

The FBO account is FDIC-insured on a “pass through” basis to the individual lender members, subject to applicable limits.  This means that each individual lender member’s balance is protected by FDIC insurance, up to the aggregate amounts established by the FDIC.  Other funds the lender member has on deposit with Wells Fargo Bank, N.A., for example, may count against the FDIC insurance limits.

Funds of a lender member may stay in the FBO account indefinitely.  Such funds may include funds in the lender member’s sub-account never committed to the purchase of Notes or committed to the purchase of Notes for which the corresponding borrower loan did not fund, and may also include payments received from Prosper related to Notes previously purchased.  Upon request by the lender member, we will transfer lender member funds in the FBO account to the lender member’s designated and verified bank account by ACH transfer, provided such funds are not already committed to the future purchase of Notes.

(Emphasis added at relevant point.)
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NewHorizon

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 09:37:10 pm »

I don't know the answer to bama's question, but of course putting something into your S-1 filing doesn't mean it's true.  If it were, then bama wouldn't have asked the question after reading the original S-1!  ;)
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Xenon481

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 09:51:50 pm »

100% - 22.6% = 77.4% not 87.4%

Fred93

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 10:17:17 pm »

100% - 22.6% = 77.4% not 87.4%

Thanks.  Corrected. 

ira01

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2008, 02:09:51 am »

I think your analysis is WAY too rosy.

First of all, I think that the statute of limitations will probably be gotten around, in light of Prosper's repeated and recent assertions that its business model was fully legal and its notes did not require registration.  As I've noted elsewhere, the law is generally that a defendant cannot trick people into not suing, and then after the statute of limitations runs, say "gotcha."  That turns your $31M into $71M.

Second, I think that the case will likely settle (or be adjudicated) for far more than 20%.  While it's true that 20% in many cases might be a reasonable (or even high) settlement valuation, this is not the usual case.  There is already an SEC determination of liability.  While I imagine that is not conclusive, it is probably admissible and would carry significant weight. 

And the possible BK of Prosper, which in the ordinary case would significantly reduce the settlement value, also will not have the usual effect, because there are lots of deep-pocketed defendants and possible future defendants to turn to here. 

I also think that this case may not drag on for at least two years.  Although that would normally be a safe (even conservative) assumption, once again this is not the usual case.  The issues are few and narrow.  I doubt much discovery is necessary, and the major issues -- whether Prosper unlawfully sold unregistered securities and if so, what is the proper remedy -- may well be amenable to summary judgment as they are both basically questions of law.  That could easily happen within a year or less.  Although Prosper certainly could appeal an adverse decision, which would absolutely drag the case on for more than two years, who is going to invest in Prosper (as a VC, in an IPO, or as a lender) with a judgment (albeit not a final one) hanging over it?  The large majority of judgments are affirmed on appeal.

Moreover, if you are correct that Prosper gets a big infusion of cash to take care of the securities class action and keep it solvent, then another enterprising attorney might decide that another class action is in order -- this time, over Prosper's numerous breaches of contract, fiduciary duty, and fraud (basically as set forth in the lawyer letter sent to Prosper a while back).  The statutes of limitations in California for breach of written contract is 4 years from the breach, and for fraud is 3 years from the discovery of the fraud. 

Aside from the above legal issues, you also neglect to discuss the significant business problems of Prosper.  As we all know, even before the "quiet period" Prosper's loan originations were flat.  As I explained in my blog post here, the 12-month moving average had basically reached a plateau of about $7M a month for many months.  We also know that a bit over a year ago, Larsen acknowledged that originations needed to increase 400-500% for Prosper to just break even.  Where is that growth going to come from?  Sure, a secondary market would help a bit.  But not enough. 

Even with a spiffy new SEC registration, verification and collections will still suck (as you point out, they may even be worse, since Prosper states it has no obligation to do jack -- except for referring month late loans to a CA).  Thus, loan performance will be no better than it is now (and may well be worse, as the economy is worse now than it was, and more borrowers will experience financial difficulties).  Lenders won't even own the loans anymore, so IMHO (as I've explained in more detail elsewhere) someone would have to be dumber than a rock to "lend" on Prosper with the class action hanging over its head. 

And there is more negative commentary about P2P lending in general, and Prosper in specific, now than there was.  Prosper won't be able to get its PR puff pieces published with such ease anymore, and even if it could, it won't be able to misrepresent the risks anymore with the SEC looking over its shoulder (no more Larsen interviews claiming the default rate is only 4%, or whatever spurious figures arrived at via bogus calculations he liked to trot out). 

Put that all together, and my "weather forecast" is dark clouds building over Prosper, with a high likelihood of a hurricane wiping it out completely.  Of course (and as always), TINLA and YMMV.
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onthefence

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2008, 03:32:56 am »

someone would have to be dumber than a rock to "lend" on Prosper with the class action hanging over its head.

http://www.lendingstats.com/search?searchTerm=rock&type=&x=0&y=0&pageNum=-1
Rock40
rock82
rock931
rockabillylender
rockandorroll
rockbound
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rocker3117
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rocket86
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rocketspocket
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ROCKI9
rockie1004
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rockingbeat
rockingnrolling
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rockitaway
RockItDawg
rockitsauce
rockland
Rockles
rocklicj
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rockstar728
rockstar73
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rockville77
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rockwild
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rocky7
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rockymtbob
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RockyMtnMan
RockyMtnOne
RockyMtnRanch
RockyRidge
rockytop
Rockytopgent
RockytopTN
rocky_island
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Fred93

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Re: Fred93 - new prospectus good, but ...
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2008, 05:40:07 am »

...

Your predictions are all perfectly reasonable.

Aside from the above legal issues, you also neglect to discuss the significant business problems of Prosper.  As we all know, even before the "quiet period" Prosper's loan originations were flat.  As I explained in my blog post here, the 12-month moving average had basically reached a plateau of about $7M a month for many months.

This fact is troubling.  I don't have a diagnosis for why the numbers look the way they do.

One detail:  At one point prosper intentionally turned away one segment of their customers by raising the minimum credit score required to borrow.  They were right to do this, because the loans from that bottom end of the HRs were so crappy.  But now if you want to track growth, you should really adjust the earlier numbers downward.

I'm not a marketing guy, so I may not be the best person to figure this out, but even I feel that I can speak with some authority when I say that blogging about turkey dinners and black dresses is unlikely to be the magic strategy for pulling in ever-growing numbers of borrowers.  Prosper probably needs to change their marketing person again.
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