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Author Topic: Greetings  (Read 63465 times)

mothandrust

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2010, 07:40:31 pm »

There are roughly 15,300 lenders with an average loan age > 730 days (2 years), and > 20 loans made.  Of those, exactly 13 have ROI's of 12% or more.  You need to be in the 99.9th percentile to do that.  Maybe you are -- but I wouldn't count on it if I were you.

I have over the last 2 years periodically looked at lenders with 20+ loans and average loan ages between 720-740 days and it is rare to find more than a few that have an EricsCCROI > 10%.  At many times there are zero.

At present the group contains over 700 lenders, with 4 over 10% and 38 over 5%.  The median return is negative, so just being "smarter than the average bear" isn't profitable.

I don't think it is a case of getting in at the wrong time--it is a case of it being very hard to be in that 99th percentile.  
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Nora_Lenderbee

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2010, 07:46:56 pm »

Yes, they say they have an arrangement in place with someone to service the loans if they croak.  However, they have said lots of things in the past that turned out to not quite be true, so you should interpret their statement more like "They believe they have an arrangement in place, and it will probably work."  However, given the way they have changed their interpretation of contractual obligations in the past, you would have to conclude that management is pretty loose with their obligations to lenders.  There is no certainty here.

The bolded words of Fred are the reason why i don't plan to lend on prosper any more.

FYI, I went into Prosper as a fun experiment that might, if it worked out, make some money. My ROI is very low, but still positive. If all my loans stopped paying tomorrow, I'd end up down less than $300, which is a more than reasonable price for three years of education and entertainment. So, in terms of my own expectations, Prosper can be considered a success for me.

Prosper is not to blame for the loans I made that went bad. But the management of Prosper has been so terrible that I don't want anything more to do with the company. I have no confidence in anything they say. They have pulled too much crap already. They treat the borrowers as their customer and the lenders as suckers.

You have a good prospect of doing better than the early lenders did, because of the tighter credit requirements. However, do keep in mind that you have absolutely no control, none, of the way Prosper chooses to do business in the future.

I strongly agree with others that you should put no more into Prosper than you can lose without minding, and then slow down and let your loans mature. Wait to see whether your lending ideas are successful. We earlier lenders had a lot of strategies that seemed really smart, but didn't work at all as expected. If Prosper is viable, you can dump more money in. If it's not, you won't be left kicking yourself.

Also, in my experience, way more loans defaulted after 1 year than during the first year.

Good luck!
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Cushie

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2010, 07:59:31 pm »

Looks lobby nominated and seconded and so off it goes.  
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pioneer11

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2010, 08:03:37 pm »

Was one of the rules that OP had to agree to lobby? ???
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mothandrust

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2010, 08:08:32 pm »

If you're worried about Prosper going bankrupt, you could just take out a 25K hedge loan on Prosper, and pay it as long as Prosper credits you with payments from "your" current borrowers...

http://www.prosper.com/invest/listing.aspx?listingID=452359

...I say "your" because we commonly think of borrowers on Prosper paying (or not paying) lenders, but we have no security interest in the loans themselves.
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God-Father

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2010, 08:14:22 pm »

Was one of the rules that OP had to agree to lobby? ???
I certainly thought it was (presuming the OP is still around).  If it isn't the rule, IMHO it should be.

Can we have a second moderator opinion?
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blue

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2010, 09:13:29 pm »

you are correct.  Practically no one on this forum is lending anymore

Or perhaps there are plenty on here that are lending happily - but don't say anything for fear of getting flamed horrifically!

(although it is fun to watch)
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pioneer11

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2010, 09:18:03 pm »

you are correct.  Practically no one on this forum is lending anymore

Or perhaps there are plenty on here that are lending happily - but don't say anything for fear of getting flamed horrifically!

(although it is fun to watch)

I doubt that a new lender using common sense in his strategy would get flamed. 
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Xenon481

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2010, 09:37:00 pm »

Was one of the rules that OP had to agree to lobby? ???
I certainly thought it was (presuming the OP is still around).  If it isn't the rule, IMHO it should be.

Can we have a second moderator opinion?

+1

Cushie

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2010, 09:43:06 pm »

Was one of the rules that OP had to agree to lobby? ???
I certainly thought it was (presuming the OP is still around).  If it isn't the rule, IMHO it should be.

Can we have a second moderator opinion?

+1

Oh jeez, sorry guys.  Your-Bank, if you do not wish this to be in the lobby I will move it back.  I think that's probably the simplest solution to the mess I've created. 
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onthefence

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2010, 10:04:56 pm »

Oh jeez, sorry guys.  Your-Bank, if you do not wish this to be in the lobby I will move it back.  I think that's probably the simplest solution to the mess I've created. 
I just don't think we can trust this wild & foot loose Cushie any more.
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ira01

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2010, 10:05:44 pm »

Was one of the rules that OP had to agree to lobby? ???
I certainly thought it was (presuming the OP is still around).  If it isn't the rule, IMHO it should be.

I don't think that's the rule, nor should it be.  I don't see why the OP should have any more say than any other poster in a thread.
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Cushie

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2010, 10:12:07 pm »

I went and re-read the moderation intro here in the lobby and while I remember historically that the OP had to agree to a lobby move, I don't see that in there now.  So, not real sure on that one.  Better to err on the side of asking, IMO.
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onthefence

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2010, 10:43:22 pm »

I'm getting the feeling I'm not welcome here.  It seems this is not an active lending forum as I had thought.

You are welcome here.  It's always interesting to see someone give it a shot.  Not many people are lending because it is not as profitable as Prosper's marketing team would have you think.

My "theory" is based on "times have changed" and the time is right for P2P lending.

Yes.  Many people have bitten on the "times have changed" thought before.  Although Prosper has improved their credit based selection criteria (which lenders could have done themselves at any time), I still think that Prosper's verification process is weaker than other credit providers and they are still attracting a poor class of borrowers.

I'll try to not rehash all of the other good advice & comments already made.

If there is one single bit of information that I think it is critical for you to know, it's that this what the shape of your XIRR will look like over time if you were to stop lending now.  It will take about 15 months to find out how you are really doing.


Source: http://www.prospers.org/forum/will_researchpro_leave_or_admit_he_was_wrong-t11350.0.html;msg347866#msg347866

If you continue to lend, you will still have that shape, just flatter & more stretched out.  ResearchPro also went with the high interest rate loan approach as you are doing.  I don't think it works out that well as ira01 has already spelled out.  ResearchPro has done far better than many other lenders due to his efforts in analyzing the data.  But 4% ROI is what he was shooting for.

Blaming it all on lenders choosing poor credit risk borrowers is not the full story.  Here is an older chart produced by Rate Ladder when he was still interested in lending.  Please note, the credit grades are based on the older Experian Plus credit grades (not the newer Prosper rating system).  Still lates are far higher than they should have been.


Source: http://www.rateladder.com/2008/10/20/prosper-1-month-late-or-worse-curves-by-credit-grade/

Another current concern is that I *think* Prosper's current estimated default rate is too optimistic since they include a number of loans that are too young to default.  I haven't bothered to confirm that as it's been true in the past, and I have such low expectations that they are correct now.

What would be great is if you also posted your monthly XIRR here.  It's always interesting to see how things pan out & chart the change like we did with ResearchPro.  Unfortunately the numbers on Eric's CC are just estimates.

Also, know that the Identity theft guarantee is bogus.  They stopped paying out once they eliminated our ability to identify cases of identity theft.

In any case, welcome to the boards.  Feel free to ask questions about the prospectus, throw up some loans you are curious about in the "Check out my List" subform to get other people's input.  http://www.prospers.org/forum/check_out_my_listing-b10.0/  There is a lot of knowledge here in these forums, you just have to ask.  (It's too much to dump on you all at once).
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ResearchPro

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Re: Greetings
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2010, 12:06:10 am »

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