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Author Topic: Lenders no longer bidding!  (Read 34543 times)

christoofar215

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2010, 06:41:43 pm »





This rate chart doesn't come anywhere NEAR the low rates that credit unions offer.

Prosper is now not even competitive with the ordinary ways to obtain consumer credit.    They are really f__king desperate.



I wonder what's left of their last capital injection.
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christoofar215

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2010, 06:43:36 pm »

No more HRs:  Probably helps the newbie lender from getting all excited by the "high" returns.

My earlier statement turns out to be wrong.  I just checked my credit union and found that their APR is 0.4% higher on the 3 year and 3% higher on the 5 year.  So, if I wanted a loan I would give Prosper a try first.

I fear that the partial funding policy to lead to more desperation loans being made.


On Equifax I'm a FICO 806 and I have one previous Prosper loan.   NFCU will set a rate as low as 6.21% on a signature loan unsecured, depending on the term.


But if I secure it against a savings account or a CD the rate is ridiculously low.  Something like 2.5%.
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Urbi_et_Orbi

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2010, 06:44:27 pm »

Interesting that the people with the lowest grades can only get 3-year loans.
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pioneer11

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2010, 07:11:08 pm »

I am ok with the concept of giving a second time borrower a break in interest rate if they have PIF over many months of regular payments.  Those that repay immediately or sit on the money for a couple of months and pay back in one large payment are gaming the system and seem to be the highest risks of all.
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Shenandoah

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2010, 08:37:42 am »

This rate chart doesn't come anywhere NEAR the low rates that credit unions offer.

Prosper is now not even competitive with the ordinary ways to obtain consumer credit.    They are really f__king desperate.

What is your credit union offering?
I checked a bunch of credit unions, and personal loans seem to be in the 9-11% range for the best credit borrowers.
My own credit union is 8.99%, which is better than Prosper for a 5-year term, but worse than Prosper for anything shorter.
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Elmslice

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2010, 10:52:23 am »

Now that I'm no longer an active lender, the thing that really strikes me about my Propser experience is how the mechanics of a descending-price auction wrecked returns for lenders.  Every time a listing was bid down below what the borrower was willing to pay, it took money out of lender's pockets.  Lenders needed those marginal returns that were bid away from good listings in order to (at least partially) counter defaults.  If Prosper had been more successful and attracted more money and bidding action from lenders, this fundamental flaw would have been magnified as listings were bid down further.  

The idea that hidden gems at higher rates could be located by savvy lenders never worked as a practical matter.  There wasn't enough solid information in the listings to be able to accurately distinguish good loans, plus of course there was a lot of deception in listings that further muddied any attempt at analysis.

So, looking back, I see no way that the auction model could have ever worked for lenders.  Prosper in my opinion is making the correct decision by abandoning it.  That said, I wouldn't start lending on Prosper again, even if it were allowed in my state.  Prosper has too many other well documented problems, and I think potential lenders should still stay away.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 10:55:52 am by Elmslice »
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havastat

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2010, 11:29:07 am »

I think there have been three general difficulties with P2P lending that haven't fully been solved:

1. Ordinary investors tend to underestimate the risks involved. That means that if investors are allowed to set the rates freely through an auction, naive investors will be willing to bid the rates below what more risk-aware investors would be willing to accept. They will win the auctions and shut the sophisticated investors out of the market, but they will then get burned when there are more defaults than they expected and they lose money. The Prosper experience has been that when investors lose money this way, most won't attribute their losses to their own deficiencies. They won't come back again to try a more sophisticated approach. Instead, they will attribute their losses to the platform. They'll walk away and they'll never come back. Some of them may sue.

2. A P2P outfit has to provide a lot more services to help prevent and alleviate the risks than was anticipated. These services include giving investors much more guidance about what rates are reasonable given the risks, and performing much more aggressive collections to try to prevent lates from becoming charge-offs. These services cost money, requiring the P2P outfit to charge a larger spread than previously anticipated to support them. This makes the P2P outfit more like a bank, with a hand in the transaction and a relationship with the parties at all times,  than like an eBay which simply momentarily connects a buyer and a seller.

3. The spread between what fully-informed investors should rationally accept to make money (as distinct from what naive investors will initially accept) and what borrowers find competitive given their alternatives is narrower than first appeared, and may be negative for some credit groups. Because P2P debt is both unsecured and risky, and perhaps because of current economic conditions, investors' proper comparator given the risks involved is not bank deposits as previously believed by many, or even high-grade corporate debt, but lower-grade or junk debt. And given the current ultra-low underlying interest rate climate this recession has engendered, excellent-credit borrowers have opportunities to get lower rates through credit unions and similar competitors who pay interest at ultra-low federally guaranteed deposit rates.  This reduces the competitive viability of the P2P lending niche.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 11:41:51 am by havastat »
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Senator

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2010, 11:31:43 am »

I think there have been three general difficulties with P2P lending that haven't fully been solved:

1. Ordinary investors tend to underestimate the risks involved...

2. A P2P outfit has to provide a lot more services to help prevent and alleviate the risks than any ever anticipate...

What's #3. ?
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havastat

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2010, 12:09:58 pm »

Prosper filed an amended Prospectus with the SEC covering the elimination of bidding among other issues on December 17. The Prospectus is on the SEC's EDGAR archive system, at

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1416265/000141626510000555/prosperposam310d22d10.htm
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havastat

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2010, 12:13:18 pm »

I see Urbi_et_Orbi has already posted the link.
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Flying Missle

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2010, 01:43:31 pm »

Prosper filed an amended Prospectus with the SEC covering the elimination of bidding among other issues on December 17. The Prospectus is on the SEC's EDGAR archive system, at

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1416265/000141626510000555/prosperposam310d22d10.htm

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere, but it also appears they will be allowing borrowers to set minimum and maximum loan amounts. So if they get 90% funded, that may still allow the loan to originate.

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Flying Missle

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2010, 01:45:02 pm »

Prosper filed an amended Prospectus with the SEC covering the elimination of bidding among other issues on December 17. The Prospectus is on the SEC's EDGAR archive system, at

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1416265/000141626510000555/prosperposam310d22d10.htm

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere, but it also appears they will be allowing borrowers to set minimum and maximum loan amounts. So if they get 90% funded, that may still allow the loan to originate.

Quote from: Prospectus
This Post-Effective Amendment No. 3 relates to the Registration Statement on Form S-1 (File No. 333-147019) of Prosper Marketplace, Inc.  The purpose of the amended and restated prospectus included in this Post-Effective Amendment No. 3 is to supplement and revise the prospectus dated as of July 26, 2010 to reflect:
 
· 
   
changes in the way that Prosper sets interest rates for borrower loans and Borrower Payment Dependent Notes (i.e., the use of pre-set interest rates for loan listings rather than using an interest rate bidding process to determine interest rates for borrower loans and Notes);
    
a change to allow for the partial funding of loan listings (i.e., to allow a borrower to set a minimum and maximum loan amount, rather than just the maximum loan amount that is permitted by the current model);
    
an increase in the bidding period for loan listings from 7 days to 14 days; and
 

updated performance information about Prosper’s platform and the incorporation by reference of information included in our SEC filings.
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onthefence

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2010, 03:41:55 pm »

it also appears they will be allowing borrowers to set minimum and maximum loan amounts. So if they get 90% funded, that may still allow the loan to originate.
Isn't that a bit like lending club?  The idiots will no longer have at least the minor protection from the wisdom of crowds.
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kenL

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2010, 07:39:31 pm »

Interesting that the people with the lowest grades can only get 3-year loans.
I can understand why they don't let the lowest grades do 5 year loans because the interest rates are just too high, but why not 1 year?
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pioneer11

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Re: Lenders no longer bidding!
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2010, 07:48:47 pm »

it also appears they will be allowing borrowers to set minimum and maximum loan amounts. So if they get 90% funded, that may still allow the loan to originate.
Isn't that a bit like lending club?  The idiots will no longer have at least the minor protection from the wisdom of crowds.
That wisdom saved me from 16 defaults (and counting).
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