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Author Topic: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?  (Read 36293 times)

JackFlash

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Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« on: January 01, 2013, 10:19:17 am »



 What action does prosper.com take on Charge-off Accounts?
Do they just sell the account or do they take legal action?
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Beerbud1

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2013, 10:20:16 am »

Neither! They turn your account over to a Collection agency!
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JackFlash

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2013, 10:39:47 am »

Neither! They turn your account over to a Collection agency!

 That is stupid, isn't?  They've decided to just call people 24/7 in hopes of collecting rather than sell the account or take them to court?
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NewHorizon

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 11:02:31 am »

Stupid? Yes.
Cheapest option (for Prosper)?  Yes.
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ira01

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 11:04:58 am »

Neither! They turn your account over to a Collection agency!

 That is stupid, isn't?  They've decided to just call people 24/7 in hopes of collecting rather than sell the account or take them to court?

You overestimate the efforts of the collection agency.  They aren't calling people 24/7 (in fairness, it is illegal to call after 9pm).  I doubt they call barely at all. 

Back in the original Prosper (before the SEC shut them down for selling unregistered securities to lenders), Prosper was legally obligated to sell loans to junk debt buyers when they were 4 months late.  Yet Prosper chose not to bother.  Prosper never has cared much about its legal obligations. 
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xraider

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 11:57:39 am »

Prosper had its crack internal collection team try litigation after pressure from lenders.  It ended up dismissing all the suits. 

In 2007, I was so frustrated with the poor collection efforts I called one of the collection agencies.  Within a week, Prosper changed its terms of service to direct that lenders couldn't call collection agencies. 

As Ira pointed out, Prosper's legal agreement with many of us required it to sell late accounts after four months to junk debt buyers.  Prosper never sold any of my delinquent accounts, and didn't collect much on them, either. 

Finally, Prosper doesn't report to the credit bureaus with any reliability.  We know this from borrowers who have told us that.

The bottom line with Prosper is that you are making unsecured loans to strangers over the Internet through a company that cares a lot more about making loans that protecting its investors' interests.  That's why many of us don't lend any more. 

By the way, welcome. 
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JackFlash

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 12:27:21 pm »

Prosper had its crack internal collection team try litigation after pressure from lenders.  It ended up dismissing all the suits. 

In 2007, I was so frustrated with the poor collection efforts I called one of the collection agencies.  Within a week, Prosper changed its terms of service to direct that lenders couldn't call collection agencies. 

As Ira pointed out, Prosper's legal agreement with many of us required it to sell late accounts after four months to junk debt buyers.  Prosper never sold any of my delinquent accounts, and didn't collect much on them, either. 

Finally, Prosper doesn't report to the credit bureaus with any reliability.  We know this from borrowers who have told us that.

The bottom line with Prosper is that you are making unsecured loans to strangers over the Internet through a company that cares a lot more about making loans that protecting its investors' interests.  That's why many of us don't lend any more. 

By the way, welcome. 





 Holy Crap, seriously?  So what you are telling me is that if you loan out money and the borrower defaults, Prosper will sic a collection agency on
them, but they do little if anything to press the issue legally with the court system in the borrower's home town? In short, borrowers get away with
millions and nothing is done?


 
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Beerbud1

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 01:12:53 pm »

Prosper had its crack internal collection team try litigation after pressure from lenders.  It ended up dismissing all the suits. 

In 2007, I was so frustrated with the poor collection efforts I called one of the collection agencies.  Within a week, Prosper changed its terms of service to direct that lenders couldn't call collection agencies. 

As Ira pointed out, Prosper's legal agreement with many of us required it to sell late accounts after four months to junk debt buyers.  Prosper never sold any of my delinquent accounts, and didn't collect much on them, either. 

Finally, Prosper doesn't report to the credit bureaus with any reliability.  We know this from borrowers who have told us that.

The bottom line with Prosper is that you are making unsecured loans to strangers over the Internet through a company that cares a lot more about making loans that protecting its investors' interests.  That's why many of us don't lend any more. 

By the way, welcome. 





 Holy Crap, seriously?  So what you are telling me is that if you loan out money and the borrower defaults, Prosper will sic a collection agency on
them, but they do little if anything to press the issue legally with the court system in the borrower's home town? In short, borrowers get away with
millions and nothing is done?


 

Yup! That is Correct.
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JackFlash

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 01:33:09 pm »


Yup! That is Correct.


 Damn. I suppose Prosper.com's business metric is just on getting new lenders signed up and call it a day.
I suppose, technically, prosper.com isn't really losing any money when a loan defaults, just the fees they collect.
And if the actual lenders can't sue, that makes it pretty sweet to be a borrower. Free Money some might call it.
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ira01

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 01:41:34 pm »

Prosper had its crack internal collection team try litigation after pressure from lenders.  It ended up dismissing all the suits. 

In 2007, I was so frustrated with the poor collection efforts I called one of the collection agencies.  Within a week, Prosper changed its terms of service to direct that lenders couldn't call collection agencies. 

As Ira pointed out, Prosper's legal agreement with many of us required it to sell late accounts after four months to junk debt buyers.  Prosper never sold any of my delinquent accounts, and didn't collect much on them, either. 

Finally, Prosper doesn't report to the credit bureaus with any reliability.  We know this from borrowers who have told us that.

The bottom line with Prosper is that you are making unsecured loans to strangers over the Internet through a company that cares a lot more about making loans that protecting its investors' interests.  That's why many of us don't lend any more. 

By the way, welcome. 

Holy Crap, seriously?  So what you are telling me is that if you loan out money and the borrower defaults, Prosper will sic a collection agency on them, but they do little if anything to press the issue legally with the court system in the borrower's home town? In short, borrowers get away with millions and nothing is done?

Basically correct, except that Prosper won't do "little" legally, it will do NOTHING.  Period.  After thoroughly fucking up its pilot program in which it tried suing about 60 defaulted borrowers in court in CA (thanks to sheer ineptness, it lost or voluntarily dismissed all but 1 or 2 cases, if I recall correctly), Prosper completely gave up on legal action.  There are even cases in which a borrower declared BK, and Prosper failed to file the appropriate documents to perfect a claim -- there are even 1 or 2 loans that after lenders (not Prosper) discovered the problem, Prosper had to agree to make payments on behalf of the BK debtor.  

Moreover, despite many lenders (including myself) clearly explaining to Prosper from nearly its beginning the need to go after fraud by making examples of borrowers in egregious cases, Prosper has never done so.  There are plenty of borrowers with supposedly excellent credit and low DTI, and self-reported high income, who took out large loans and never made ONE SINGLE payment.  Sure, it's possible that in a miniscule number of those cases, the borrower got run over by a bus the day after taking out the loan, or had some other major change in circumstances that rendered him or her unable to pay, but I think it is safe to assume that in the majority of such cases, the borrower never intended to repay the loan when he/she took it out, which is fraud.  Prosper could (and should) have easily investigated such "zero-pay" loans, and sued (or referred for criminal prosecution) some of those fraudsters, but it chose not to.  Perhaps because Prosper had already been paid its origination fee, so WGAF if the lenders got screwed?  

And don't even get me started on Prosper's so called "100% identity theft guarantee."  Prosper promised (and legally committed) to repurchase from lenders any loan that was procured through identity fraud -- where the "borrower" was not the person he/she was purporting to be.  There are MANY stories of how Prosper stuck its head in the sand and strenuously avoided finding that any loans were procured through identity fraud.  In many cases, enterprising Lender "detectives" investigated loans and borrowers, and proved that they were identity theft (in one case, working with the NYPD who had been investigating the "borrower" for other identity theft, and giving Prosper the name and phone number of the NYPD detective on the case -- Prosper didn't bother to call).  Then the Lender would publicly post all of the proof on Prosper's official forum (which Prosper deleted, along with hundreds of thousands of posts, one day, without notice), and when the resulting shit-storm got to be a sufficiently bad PR disaster, only then would Prosper repurchase the loan under its "guarantee."  

And to avoid such situations in the future (having the fraud exposed, not preventing the fraud), Prosper continually reduced the amount of information that Lenders could get about borrowers, even violating its own privacy policy which expressly stated that borrowers could choose how much information to make available to lenders, and increasingly punishing lenders who exposed such fraud publicly, protecting other lenders (many of us old-timers were suspended from Prosper and/or its forums for such actions to protect lenders -- such as the infamous case of "indictment man," a borrower with an active listing who lender detectives discovered through an FBI press release was under indictment for loan fraud -- when lenders posted links to the PUBLIC FBI press release, Prosper suspended the lenders from its forum!).  In another case, a borrower with an active listing was discovered to have been recently convicted of a crime, and was due to report to prison for a several year sentence commencing in a few months (his loan listing was "coincidentally" in the amount of his criminal restitution order).  Prosper retaliated against lenders who made that public as well, despite the obvious question of how the borrower was planning on making his loan payments from prison (apparently by making 15 cents an hour making license plates, or whatever prisoners do these days  :ninja:).

In short, Prosper has rarely failed to take any action it could that it conceived to be in its own interest, despite being horrible for Lenders.  
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ira01

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 01:44:20 pm »


Yup! That is Correct.

Damn. I suppose Prosper.com's business metric is just on getting new lenders signed up and call it a day.
I suppose, technically, prosper.com isn't really losing any money when a loan defaults, just the fees they collect.
And if the actual lenders can't sue, that makes it pretty sweet to be a borrower. Free Money some might call it.

Yep.  That is why many believe that Prosper (and other "P2P" lenders) should be required to own a portion of every loan (perhaps 5%), so that it has "skin in the game."  That way it has the proper incentive to carefully underwrite loans, rather than just cranking them out to anyone, regardless of how dicey.  Basically it is just like the mortgage meltdown -- and why post-meltdown rules will require originators to retain a piece of each loan, except for especially good "qualified" loans. 
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xraider

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 03:13:13 pm »

There is documentation if most -- if not all -- of Ira's points here, if you are interested. 

Regarding the bk that Ira mentioned, Prosper "forgot" to file a timely notice of claim.  Because the borrower is on a five-year repayment plan with the bk court, Prosper is making restitution to the lenders on that loan in the same five year plan.  And, Prosper has "forgotten" to make payments on that loan several times, although recently it's been paying me my monthly $.76 regularly. 

It really is unbelievable.  I hope the class action shuts this horrible company down.
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JackFlash

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2013, 08:33:57 pm »

 What happens to the credit report/history of a borrower who has defaulted? Are there any black marks on a
borrower's credit report? Or does it only show the initial credit check when a loan is originated?

« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 08:39:52 pm by JackFlash »
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ira01

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 09:28:35 pm »

What happens to the credit report/history of a borrower who has defaulted? Are there any black marks on a
borrower's credit report? Or does it only show the initial credit check when a loan is originated?

The last I heard, Prosper reports to 2 of the big 3 credit reporting agencies, and in theory, defaults (and delinquent payments) should appear on the borrower's credit report from those two agencies (for 7 years).  But we've heard anecdotal reports from some borrowers that Prosper may not always report negative information, and also there is a question of whether Prosper responds appropriately to demands by borrowers that negative information be deleted as inaccurate (or whether Prosper simply removes the disputed information).  So the bottom line is that we really don't know for sure.
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Capital_Finance_Group

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Re: Charge-Off Accounts -- Action?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 02:38:40 am »

Prosper had its crack internal collection team try litigation after pressure from lenders.  It ended up dismissing all the suits. 

In 2007, I was so frustrated with the poor collection efforts I called one of the collection agencies.  Within a week, Prosper changed its terms of service to direct that lenders couldn't call collection agencies. 

As Ira pointed out, Prosper's legal agreement with many of us required it to sell late accounts after four months to junk debt buyers.  Prosper never sold any of my delinquent accounts, and didn't collect much on them, either. 

Finally, Prosper doesn't report to the credit bureaus with any reliability.  We know this from borrowers who have told us that.

The bottom line with Prosper is that you are making unsecured loans to strangers over the Internet through a company that cares a lot more about making loans that protecting its investors' interests.  That's why many of us don't lend any more. 

By the way, welcome. 





 Holy Crap, seriously?  So what you are telling me is that if you loan out money and the borrower defaults, Prosper will sic a collection agency on
them, but they do little if anything to press the issue legally with the court system in the borrower's home town? In short, borrowers get away with
millions and nothing is done?


 

Yup! That is Correct.

I addition I have 3 bankruptcies that have been in bankruptcy since they filed in 2010. No update on status in 2-3 years now just that they filed bankruptcy.
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