Prospers.ORG Prosper Forum

Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Prospers.ORG!   Login here

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Debt Sale -- December 2007  (Read 154269 times)

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +145/-10655
  • Posts: 48349
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2007, 05:55:33 pm »

Make the December sale, as promised and not make their numbers look even worse than they already do. They managed to accomplish that by not selling all the "old" loans. How long have the "New Agency" loans been assigned? If it's more than a month, then they should have been included in the sale. If a borrower was contacted by Pencro for months, then the "New Agency" it's a pipedream to think they are suddenly going to pay up after a month of contact.

As was stated above about the "New Agency" being a law firm, there is something everybody should know:

IIRC, these borrowers are all California residents, which means there is no question that California law (and therefore California courts) have proper jurisdiction.  I know for a fact that lawsuits in California cannot be filed overnight.

Actually, yes they can.  You crank up a form complaint and summons out of your computer (which takes about 10 minutes to put in the defendant's name, the amount of the debt, and other similar info), and you have a messenger file it at the courthouse (which takes about 30 minutes).

Quote
First, you must make a formal demand for payment,

Nope.  From the Prommissory Note:
Quote
10. Waivers. You may accept late payments or partial payments, even though marked "paid in full," without losing any rights under this Note, and you may delay enforcing any of your rights under this Note without losing them. You do not have to (a) demand payment of amounts due (known as "presentment"), (b) give notice that amounts due have not been paid (known as "notice of dishonor"), or (c) obtain an official certification of nonpayment (known as "protest"). I hereby waive presentment, notice of dishonor and protest. Even if, at a time when I am in default, you do not require me to pay immediately in full as described above, you will still have the right to do so if I am in default at a later time. Neither your failure to exercise any of your rights, nor your delay in enforcing or exercising any of your rights, will waive those rights. Furthermore, if you waive any right under this Note on one occasion, that waiver will not operate as a waiver as to any other occasion.

Quote
second, you must serve the papers and wait for a trial date. 

That is a different issue from whether lawsuits in California can be "filed overnight."  Yes, once suit is filed, the defendant must be served.  Big deal.  Prosper supposedly verified the borrower's address, so that shouldn't be too difficult.  Even if they have since moved, it usually isn't too difficult to find out where people live and/or work these days (you would be amazed what info is available in Lexis/Nexis databases).  And there are alternatives to personal service, such as delivering a copy to the person't home and leaving it with an adult there and mailing a copy first class.  I'm not an expert in service, because there are countless attorney services that perform this function expertly and inexpensively.

As for waiting for a trial date, it is highly unlikely any of these cases will require a trial.  In most cases, the defendant probably won't bother to file an answer, and Prosper will obtain a default judgment relatively quickly.  Even if the borrower does file an answer, what is he going to say - that wasn't me who entered all my personal information, received the address verification postcard at my home, received the verification call on my telephone number and took the money that Prosper deposited into my checking account, yet I never claimed ID theft before when Penncro kept calling me because I didn't feel like it???

Quote
(I do not know if a borrower can receive a default judgement if he fails to file a formal answer.  The formal answer is a procedural thing in a special type of limited civil action, which is the type of action that will apply in most cases.)

If the borrower fails to file an answer within the statutory time period (which I believe is 30 days in California state court), Prosper can then seek a default judgment.  That requires filing a few court documents and some evidence of the debt, and no participation by the borrower is then needed.  At the end of that process, Prosper will wind up with a default judgment, which it can then use like any other judgment -- to garnish wages, levy on bank accounts, do a till tap if the debtor has a business, etc. 
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

lenderguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1245
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2007, 06:46:30 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, IRA.  I had no idea that the borrower note waived presentment.  When I said "filed overnight" I meant to say "won't go to trial overnight."  And even if it won't go to trial, the overall point I was trying to make was that funds would not be collected overnight.

As far as serving the papers go, I'll wager that if the deadbeat wants to be a deadbeat, it won't be that difficult to avoid service.  I don't claim to be an expert in service, but I will claim to know a thing or two about service under California law.  Push comes to shove, the server can "mail and post" but that allows a total of 15 days for an answer.  Personal service allows for a 5 day answer. 

Question for you about estoppel: Can you legally waive your right to use an estoppel defense?
Logged

Nontyper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1078
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2007, 06:51:27 pm »

I just asked on the prosper blog but I thought I would ask here as well..

Why did homeowners get more of the debt sale than non-homeowners.  Prosper is a signature loan and therefore I did not think that they could put a lien on property.  Is there another reason or can the JDB somehow tie the loan to the home??

** I do know that in NC, certain debts can put a lien but it can not be signature loans such as this one.  I got a 5 minute ambulance ride for a broken collarbone when I asked the drive if it would cost, he said no, I did not have to pay.. but got a bill in the mail for $300 (little cloth sling and ride).. I disputed it but ended up having to pay it when they put a lien against the sale of my home...
Logged
** Note  that the information in this post may contain speculation, and in no way should be taken as legal advice. **
** The Posters nick is Nontyper, If you find a typo, you are not special. **

traveler505

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 2238
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2007, 06:53:40 pm »

I just asked on the prosper blog but I thought I would ask here as well..

Why did homeowners get more of the debt sale than non-homeowners.  Prosper is a signature loan and therefore I did not think that they could put a lien on property.  Is there another reason or can the JDB somehow tie the loan to the home??

** I do know that in NC, certain debts can put a lien but it can not be signature loans such as this one.  I got a 5 minute ambulance ride for a broken collarbone when I asked the drive if it would cost, he said no, I did not have to pay.. but got a bill in the mail for $300 (little cloth sling and ride).. I disputed it but ended up having to pay it when they put a lien against the sale of my home...

If the JDB files suit and obtains a judgment, that judgment acts as a lien on the real estate.  (Subject to homestead protections in some states.)
Logged
"Trav, you can always take up another hobby..." -- BigGulp

Now blogging at http://blog.traveler505.com, home of the MNH Reports and other commentary on Prosper.com and P2P lending in general.

Need Help with Credit Repair & Rebuilding?  Try CreditBoards.com.

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +145/-10655
  • Posts: 48349
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2007, 06:53:57 pm »

And even if it won't go to trial, the overall point I was trying to make was that funds would not be collected overnight.

That's surely true.  But I'm sure the lenders on these loans, having not received a payment for 4 months, will be much happier waiting a few more months and maybe getting real money, rather than 3-13% in the recent debt sale.  To say nothing of the satisfaction of knowing that the borrower didn't get to skip out on his/her debt after all.

Quote
Question for you about estoppel: Can you legally waive your right to use an estoppel defense?

Well, estoppel is an affirmative defense, so failure to assert it in the answer waives it.  But I assume you probably meant can it be waived ahead of time?  I have no idea.  Probably in some specific circumstances, but probably not in a blanket kind of way.  But that's just a wild guess.
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +145/-10655
  • Posts: 48349
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2007, 06:57:29 pm »

I just asked on the prosper blog but I thought I would ask here as well..

Why did homeowners get more of the debt sale than non-homeowners.  Prosper is a signature loan and therefore I did not think that they could put a lien on property.  Is there another reason or can the JDB somehow tie the loan to the home??

** I do know that in NC, certain debts can put a lien but it can not be signature loans such as this one.  I got a 5 minute ambulance ride for a broken collarbone when I asked the drive if it would cost, he said no, I did not have to pay.. but got a bill in the mail for $300 (little cloth sling and ride).. I disputed it but ended up having to pay it when they put a lien against the sale of my home...

If the JDB files suit and obtains a judgment, that judgment acts as a lien on the real estate.  (Subject to homestead protections in some states.)

Yep.  I wonder if another, smaller, piece of the answer is that it a homeowner is likely to be more stable and easier to locate?  But even if true, certainly Traveler's answer is at least the main reason.

It is interesting to hear that there was again a homeowner premium this debt sale.  Last debt sale there wasn't, although previous debt sales there were.  That was one of the reasons I liked bidding on homeowners, figuring that if the borrower defaults, at least I would get more in the junk debt sale.
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1973/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2007, 09:23:12 pm »

I have to admit I have taken anything past my 2+ month lates (and of course my currently open 8 BKs) and mentally written them off.

Breaking even would be a dream for me right now.
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

lenderguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1245
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2007, 09:29:17 pm »

That's surely true.  But I'm sure the lenders on these loans, having not received a payment for 4 months, will be much happier waiting a few more months and maybe getting real money, rather than 3-13% in the recent debt sale.  To say nothing of the satisfaction of knowing that the borrower didn't get to skip out on his/her debt after all.

Oh, I certainly agree.  It just seems that a few agitated lenders thought that Doug could work his magic over night.  I'm sure Doug did some posturing with the borrowers before running straight to the courthouse anyway.

Quote
Well, estoppel is an affirmative defense, so failure to assert it in the answer waives it.  But I assume you probably meant can it be waived ahead of time?  I have no idea.  Probably in some specific circumstances, but probably not in a blanket kind of way.  But that's just a wild guess.

My question really pertains to the point you quoted earlier: "Neither your failure to exercise any of your rights, nor your delay in enforcing or exercising any of your rights, will waive those rights. Furthermore, if you waive any right under this Note on one occasion, that waiver will not operate as a waiver as to any other occasion."  I mean, if Prosper got really lazy about collections efforts, could a borrower successfully win with an estoppel argument?
Logged

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +145/-10655
  • Posts: 48349
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2007, 09:35:58 pm »

I'm sure Doug did some posturing with the borrowers before running straight to the courthouse anyway.

As well he should have.  Court should never be the first option.

Quote
Quote
Well, estoppel is an affirmative defense, so failure to assert it in the answer waives it.  But I assume you probably meant can it be waived ahead of time?  I have no idea.  Probably in some specific circumstances, but probably not in a blanket kind of way.  But that's just a wild guess.

My question really pertains to the point you quoted earlier: "Neither your failure to exercise any of your rights, nor your delay in enforcing or exercising any of your rights, will waive those rights. Furthermore, if you waive any right under this Note on one occasion, that waiver will not operate as a waiver as to any other occasion."  I mean, if Prosper got really lazy about collections efforts, could a borrower successfully win with an estoppel argument?

I doubt it.  Estoppel requires detrimental reliance, and it would be pretty hard for a borrower to argue that he/she relied on Prosper's lack of dilligence to his/her detriment -- "gee, your honor, I knew I should have paid my debt, but when the debt collector wasn't hounding me, I assumed Prosper no longer wanted its money so I spent it on something else instead"?
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1973/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2008, 02:10:03 pm »

My one with the ONE payment from Aug 06 is still showing "In Collections". Oy.

After a second letter to P-----r I received this:

Quote
>Prosper recently selected some 4+ month late loans to be included in a new collections test. This test is still ongoing and therefore these loans were not sold. More information on the test will be release as soon as it is available in January. Thank you for using Prosper Marketplace.

To which I responded:

Quote
I don't think you understand. This borrower has not made a payment since AUGUST 06. That's over a year ago and it was the only payment they have made. Your new collections test wasn't instituted until the last few months. THIS WAS 120+ DAYS LATE OVER A YEAR AGO. Right now it is showing at Penncro, not the new agency and it's showing it has only been at Penncro for 2 months. Surely you see that there's a problem with this loan???

Honestly - I just want to know if there was a glitch, if this is a possible fraud situation, if someone totally hosed up - WHATEVER. But after a year+, saying that it's part of a new collections situation just ain't gonna hold any water with me.  >:( >:( >:(
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +145/-10655
  • Posts: 48349
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2008, 02:53:18 pm »

My one with the ONE payment from Aug 06 is still showing "In Collections". Oy.

After a second letter to P-----r I received this:

Quote
>Prosper recently selected some 4+ month late loans to be included in a new collections test. This test is still ongoing and therefore these loans were not sold. More information on the test will be release as soon as it is available in January. Thank you for using Prosper Marketplace.

To which I responded:

Quote
I don't think you understand. This borrower has not made a payment since AUGUST 06. That's over a year ago and it was the only payment they have made. Your new collections test wasn't instituted until the last few months. THIS WAS 120+ DAYS LATE OVER A YEAR AGO. Right now it is showing at Penncro, not the new agency and it's showing it has only been at Penncro for 2 months. Surely you see that there's a problem with this loan???

Honestly - I just want to know if there was a glitch, if this is a possible fraud situation, if someone totally hosed up - WHATEVER. But after a year+, saying that it's part of a new collections situation just ain't gonna hold any water with me.  >:( >:( >:(

It's like Prosper's CS people only have a few boilerplate emails that they can send, and they pick the closest one (even if it isn't very close).
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

ks6328

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2008, 03:20:58 pm »

My one with the ONE payment from Aug 06 is still showing "In Collections". Oy.

After a second letter to P-----r I received this:

Quote
>Prosper recently selected some 4+ month late loans to be included in a new collections test. This test is still ongoing and therefore these loans were not sold. More information on the test will be release as soon as it is available in January. Thank you for using Prosper Marketplace.

To which I responded:

Quote
I don't think you understand. This borrower has not made a payment since AUGUST 06. That's over a year ago and it was the only payment they have made. Your new collections test wasn't instituted until the last few months. THIS WAS 120+ DAYS LATE OVER A YEAR AGO. Right now it is showing at Penncro, not the new agency and it's showing it has only been at Penncro for 2 months. Surely you see that there's a problem with this loan???

Honestly - I just want to know if there was a glitch, if this is a possible fraud situation, if someone totally hosed up - WHATEVER. But after a year+, saying that it's part of a new collections situation just ain't gonna hold any water with me.  >:( >:( >:(

It's like Prosper's CS people only have a few boilerplate emails that they can send, and they pick the closest one (even if it isn't very close).

Yep.  They don't care, they just want to make the issue go away.  (If we weren't in the lobby I'd express myself more empathically!   ;D )
 
Logged

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1973/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2008, 02:12:20 pm »

My one with the ONE payment from Aug 06 is still showing "In Collections". Oy.

After a second letter to P-----r I received this:

Quote
>Prosper recently selected some 4+ month late loans to be included in a new collections test. This test is still ongoing and therefore these loans were not sold. More information on the test will be release as soon as it is available in January. Thank you for using Prosper Marketplace.

To which I responded:

Quote
I don't think you understand. This borrower has not made a payment since AUGUST 06. That's over a year ago and it was the only payment they have made. Your new collections test wasn't instituted until the last few months. THIS WAS 120+ DAYS LATE OVER A YEAR AGO. Right now it is showing at Penncro, not the new agency and it's showing it has only been at Penncro for 2 months. Surely you see that there's a problem with this loan???

Honestly - I just want to know if there was a glitch, if this is a possible fraud situation, if someone totally hosed up - WHATEVER. But after a year+, saying that it's part of a new collections situation just ain't gonna hold any water with me.  >:( >:( >:(

Is Andrew's email andrew@prosper.com or something fancier? Since Cubbie won his bet and he's still there, I'm going to send this to him - surely I can get a reasonable response from him.
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

leporello

  • Guest
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2008, 04:29:36 pm »

Is Andrew's email andrew@prosper.com or something fancier? Since Cubbie won his bet and he's still there, I'm going to send this to him - surely I can get a reasonable response from him.
It is andrew@prosper.com, yes.
Logged

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1973/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: Debt Sale -- December 2007
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2008, 04:44:41 pm »

Is Andrew's email andrew@prosper.com or something fancier? Since Cubbie won his bet and he's still there, I'm going to send this to him - surely I can get a reasonable response from him.
It is andrew@prosper.com, yes.


Thanks, Lemon :)
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Up