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Author Topic: You cant make this stuff up  (Read 6916 times)

HollowOak

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You cant make this stuff up
« on: July 23, 2008, 10:43:36 am »

Im on this loan to voteforeric from MsAvas group. Believe it or not, I had a Standing Order that bid on this.

The data on it is all weird. This worries me. Prospers data always seemed to be one of the most solid things about Prosper - a robust platform. But the data on  this loan is screwed up. Additionally, Ive heard lots of people saying lately that if they call Prosper, discrepancies are attributed to a "display lag" or an "update lag," which seems to indicate that the Prosper platform is perhaps not keeping up on the backend with the loan administration, etc?

Anyway, look at this image:



It says "2 months late."

But heres the payment history:



Hey, thats 5 payments, with the last one made in April, 2008. I looked at several calendars, and that seems to me to be more like +3 late than 2 months late. Interestingly enough, the collections info also states that this has been with Amsher for only 1 month, with no money recovered (surprise!).

But wait, theres more. You saw that only 5 payment were made, right? Well, look at the Prosper activity portion of the loan detail:


That says the user has been billed 10 times and that there is a 100% on-time payment history.

OK, we can try and explain this - he said this was a 2nd loan, so the other 5 payments could have been on that loan, right? Well, not exactly. Look again at the image - it says Active/Total loans: 1/1. So there seems to be a Prosper history of only this one loan, with no late payments ever - despite the fact that the loan is clearly late, be it 2 months or >3 months, there must have been at least one late payment.

SO, I sent Prosper an inquiry asking for clarification. Ill post the response when I get it from Prosper.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 12:51:15 pm by HollowOak »
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yankeefan

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2008, 10:51:38 am »

HO-

The May 20 payment was 1 month late on June 20, and 2 months late on July 20.  It would have been sent to the "soon" after June 20.

The 10 payments data is for the first loan, shown at the time he was applying for the second loan.  Prosper doesnt show that stuff except when listing for aother loan.

prosper has tons of screwed up accounting, but these two examples are among them.
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Mtnchick

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 11:05:01 am »

Im sure its just a "bug".
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cubbiesnextyr

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 01:19:23 pm »

Where do you see that "Prosper Activity" section???  I cant find it on my loans...
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yankeefan

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 01:27:02 pm »

Where do you see that "Prosper Activity" section???  I cant find it on my loans...

That only shows up on an adidtional loan request by the borrower- which is where Hollow Oak copied it from.
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Shenandoah

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 01:39:44 pm »

All I get from those screenshots is that at the time the listing was created for the second loan, the borrower had made 10 on time payments on his first loan.
Nothing in that Prosper Activity image applies to the second loan at all, it was captured when the borrower only had one loan and was trying for the second.
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HollowOak

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 06:45:00 pm »

All I get from those screenshots is that at the time the listing was created for the second loan, the borrower had made 10 on time payments on his first loan.
Nothing in that Prosper Activity image applies to the second loan at all, it was captured when the borrower only had one loan and was trying for the second.


OK, I find it weird that I, as a note holder on the second loan, should have information on a previous loan, that I may or may not have been a party to, display as "Prosper Activity" on this second loan, when none of that information reflects anything about the second loan. Kind of like supplying me with a transcript of my HS graduation when I finish university without placing my uni grades in the transcript?  Should I wait for "voteforeric" to apply and be granted a third loan before I will see his second loan "Prosper activity?"

Since no lender that is NOT on a loan has access to the loan details page, what would you surmise is the purpose of placing static, point-in-time, "Prosper activity" on a subsequent loan?

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Shenandoah

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 07:23:09 pm »

Since no lender that is NOT on a loan has access to the loan details page, what would you surmise is the purpose of placing static, point-in-time, "Prosper activity" on a subsequent loan?

Unless Im missing something, the Prosper Activity is on the listing page, not the loan page.  If you click that link at the top of the loan page, where it says "Title,", you are sent to the original listing.  All you are seeing there is what was there when you initially bid.  All lenders can see that.
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HollowOak

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2008, 08:18:16 pm »

Since no lender that is NOT on a loan has access to the loan details page, what would you surmise is the purpose of placing static, point-in-time, "Prosper activity" on a subsequent loan?

Unless Im missing something, the Prosper Activity is on the listing page, not the loan page.  If you click that link at the top of the loan page, where it says "Title,", you are sent to the original listing.  All you are seeing there is what was there when you initially bid.  All lenders can see that.


I think you are missing something. While the Prosper activity is certainly on the listing screen, it also appears on the loan detail page.

I took this screenshot (It is longer than one page, so I had to cobble it together).

Since it appears in a loan-specific page, I feel entitled to complain if it has no details about any activity on *that* particular loan.
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Shenandoah

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2008, 08:21:42 pm »

Oh, Ive never seen it there before.  I guess I havent looked at the loan page of any second loans before - Im not sure if I even have any.
It looks like its exactly the same as whats on the listing page, so they just copied that over.

But youre right, it makes no sense on the loan page.


ETA: I guess what they did is just copy the entire Credit Profile box, including the past loan information, from the listing.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 08:23:40 pm by Shenandoah »
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yankeefan

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 08:26:49 pm »

Now I see- sorry.

What Shenandoah said.

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nonattender

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2008, 10:59:02 pm »

OK, I find it weird that I, as a note holder on the second loan, should have information on a previous loan, that I may or may not have been a party to, display as "Prosper Activity" on this second loan, when none of that information reflects anything about the second loan. Kind of like supplying me with a transcript of my HS graduation when I finish university without placing my uni grades in the transcript?

Im going to pre-admit to not investigating this issue, but maybe I can be of help... *cough*... analogously?:

From a cursory glance at this thread - it seems like the information displayed is the "app which was bid on"?

Is it more like displaying university application (snapshot of the HS transcript) when you apply to university?
And then if theres a third loan, grad school, maybe then displaying both the university *and* HS transcript?

Thats how it seems like it ought to be, anyway - with a record of the information used to make a decision.
As I recall, theres some minimum performance threshold Prosper set to be able to take out additional loans.
(and, again, if i recall correctly, this threshold was instituted, and even bumped a bit, at behest of lenders?)

Perhaps this process serves to document compliance, via snapshot, with this minimum "credit" qualification?

-t
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 11:05:01 pm by nonattender »
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Shenandoah

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 06:26:04 am »

You can see the actual application by clicking on the listing.  That shows what you bid on in its entirety - the full record.  I dont see why they need to copy one little piece of it onto the loan page, but with just the Credit info it made a little sense.  With the Prosper Activity section I can see where that would be confusing, especially since its not labeled as a snapshot from past time.  The expectation would reasonably be that the information there is updated for the existing loan - but its not.
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cubbiesnextyr

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2008, 09:42:19 am »

Looking at its placement within the Loan Detail page, its obvious to me that its a snapshot in time just like the credit info.

The loan detail page shows all the numbers you can use to determine to bid on a listing or not, at the time of the listing.  That info is copied from the loan listing page. 

Im not confused by this at all.
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HollowOak

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Re: You cant make this stuff up
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2008, 10:10:26 am »

Looking at its placement within the Loan Detail page, its obvious to me that its a snapshot in time just like the credit info.

The loan detail page shows all the numbers you can use to determine to bid on a listing or not, at the time of the listing.  That info is copied from the loan listing page. 

Im not confused by this at all.

Lets look at its "placement within the Loan Details page."

Firstly. It is called "Loan Details" - hence, one would expect to find details regarding that particular loan.

The sub-headings, in order of appearance are:
  • Loan Information
  • Credit Profile
  • Prosper Activity
  • A note about delinquency
  • Payment History

Granted, there are white space between the Loan Information and the next two sections, and white space between them and the following sections, so I guess if one spends a fair amount of time studying all relevant factors, including spacing, one might derive that understanding. However, then, I have to question why "Payment History" is used as both a sub-heading in the Prosper Activity section and as a section header a little further down the page.

But hey, if you understand it, more power to you. To me, frankly, it looks like a mish-mash of information that is not relevant to the loan at best and utterly confusing and misleading at worst.

OK, I find it weird that I, as a note holder on the second loan, should have information on a previous loan, that I may or may not have been a party to, display as "Prosper Activity" on this second loan, when none of that information reflects anything about the second loan. Kind of like supplying me with a transcript of my HS graduation when I finish university without placing my uni grades in the transcript?

Im going to pre-admit to not investigating this issue, but maybe I can be of help... *cough*... analogously?:

From a cursory glance at this thread - it seems like the information displayed is the "app which was bid on"?

Is it more like displaying university application (snapshot of the HS transcript) when you apply to university?
And then if theres a third loan, grad school, maybe then displaying both the university *and* HS transcript?

Thats how it seems like it ought to be, anyway - with a record of the information used to make a decision.
As I recall, theres some minimum performance threshold Prosper set to be able to take out additional loans.
(and, again, if i recall correctly, this threshold was instituted, and even bumped a bit, at behest of lenders?)

Perhaps this process serves to document compliance, via snapshot, with this minimum "credit" qualification?

-t

Taking your last sentence first, yes, that could possibly explain it. As for the rest, that may be. It might reduce confusion if snapshots of past activity are clearly labeled as such and cannot be confused with an ongoing evaluation of a borrowers interaction with Prosper.

Frankly, voteforeric doesnt have 10 successful payments in his Prosper activity. He has 15, and then a few missed/late payments. He doesnt have one active loan out of one loan, he has two loans, in some permutation of the possible loan states. Claiming o *this* loan that he has one loan and 10 payments doesnt add information that is relevant to the loan.  Compliance with the 2nd loan criteria are already documented in the listing details. That is the appropriate place for static information pertaining to his Prosper Activity at the time the listing was funded and converted into a loan.
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