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Author Topic: Fool Article  (Read 117180 times)

Loan_shark_74

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #120 on: August 31, 2008, 01:14:23 pm »

One thing is for sure. This article could bring in the borrowers in droves. Prosper will now be able to claim it is still attracting people to Prosper. The only problem is that while the borrower numbers will be increasing, the lenders will be decreasing. The fatal flaw to Prosper was that they treated the borrowers as their main customer instead of the lenders. They forgot the number 1 rule of economics, "supply and demand". They worried about keeping the demand (borrowers) high, and ignored the supply (lenders). They did not realize that the demand would always be there. There would never be a lack of borrowers. Prosper needed to increase the supply by courting the lenders. With this in mind, their main effort should have been servicing their lenders. The Idea of P2P lending is great, and could have worked. If/when Prosper fails, it will be because of one fatal error; they failed to do their best for the lenders. There are numerous issues brought up by lenders that prosper has ignored. One example where prosper neglected to service their lenders is the second loans issue. Prosper wanted to introduce second loans to its borrowers, but they ignored concerns lenders brought up. All prosper had to do was make it a condition to obtain a second loan only after the first was paid off in full. They could have even set it up to allow borrowers to obtain second loans that pay off the first loan with the remaining balance going to the borrowers bank account.  For example, a borrower still owes 4k on his first loan. He lists for a second loan of 5k. Once the loan is funded and verified, the borrower gets only 1000-fees. Prosper uses the other 4k to pay off the first loan. For obvious reasons, lenders do not like the idea of borrowers having to pay on 2 prosper loans at once. This is especially frustrating for the lenders of the first loan, when both loans go bad.
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xraider

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #121 on: August 31, 2008, 01:39:18 pm »

Loan Shark, I fully, completely, 100% agree with you.  You got many of my pet peeves - Prosper should have realized that there is no "marketplace" without buyers, and the best source of business is repeat customers.

It amazes me that Prosper didn't realize that it had a huge volume of potentially very happy customers who were already lending.  If the platform worked for lenders, not only would we keep lending but we would spread the word.  The failures of the platform mean not only that there in an increasingly unhappy pool of former lenders, but also mean that when people ask us (formerly) happy lenders about Prosper, they're not inclined to come here.  There's also more information out there should people do any investigation about Prosper before lending.

Prosper had many, many opportunities to address the problems.  In the early days, there was very open communication between lenders and Prosper.  Prosper still reads here.  I'm surprised they haven't made any material pro-lender changes, most significantly INCREASING THE INFORMATION THEY PROVIDE TO US!
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NewHorizon

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #122 on: August 31, 2008, 01:50:49 pm »

Those two comments by TheTruthSpeaks have been taken down.


the comment I had in mind I still see there

Quote
On August 31, 2008, at 1:17 AM, TheTruthSpeaks wrote: Report this Comment
Certainly, a mediocre article. I suspect that the author is also a Prosper lender although he/she does not disclose this fact. So, Mr. TMF article writer, are you a registered lender on Prosper? How much contact did you have with this ira, xraider, baamlucky, etc... members of Prospers.org before writing this article?

....

What a bunch of egotistcial maniacs.


So when you can't argue the facts, argue with ad hominems...?
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onthefence

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #123 on: August 31, 2008, 01:58:00 pm »

Those two comments by TheTruthSpeaks have been taken down.


the comment I had in mind I still see there

Quote
On August 31, 2008, at 1:17 AM, TheTruthSpeaks wrote: Report this Comment
Certainly, a mediocre article. I suspect that the author is also a Prosper lender although he/she does not disclose this fact. So, Mr. TMF article writer, are you a registered lender on Prosper? How much contact did you have with this ira, xraider, baamlucky, etc... members of Prospers.org before writing this article?

....

What a bunch of egotistcial maniacs.


So when you can't argue the facts, argue with ad hominems...?
Now Now.  I think someone is being 'Negative'
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christoofar215

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #124 on: August 31, 2008, 01:59:38 pm »

Larsen probably does, but I reckon it would wipe out a huge chunk of his net worth---so he would fight it with a hit parade of top notch attorneys.
Doesn't he have executive liability insurance?

Meh I don't think so.   Or he probably got it after things started going sour at Prosper.
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ira01

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #125 on: August 31, 2008, 02:32:48 pm »

Larsen probably does, but I reckon it would wipe out a huge chunk of his net worth---so he would fight it with a hit parade of top notch attorneys.
Doesn't he have executive liability insurance?

Maybe, but I doubt his policy limits are $125M (or whatever Prosper's outstanding loan balance is).
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The_Cat

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #126 on: August 31, 2008, 02:58:42 pm »

Larsen probably does, but I reckon it would wipe out a huge chunk of his net worth---so he would fight it with a hit parade of top notch attorneys.
Doesn't he have executive liability insurance?

Maybe, but I doubt his policy limits are $125M (or whatever Prosper's outstanding loan balance is).

IRA- my recollections in this area are not too swift and I know it is all conjecture until a judge/jury rules, but do you think anyone but the shareholders (I assume Prosper is a PC or something similar) would have any chance of getting beyond the corporate veil?

Assuming the loans are held to be a security one could not know that until after a judgment. I have to assume they had opinion of counsel before they issued loan one. Wouldn't this be enough to prevent a claim on personal liability? This would leave us in line with any other creditor wouldn’t it?

I can believe they are dumb but not stupid.
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aurel57

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #127 on: August 31, 2008, 03:07:43 pm »

One thing is for sure. This article could bring in the borrowers in droves. Prosper will now be able to claim it is still attracting people to Prosper. The only problem is that while the borrower numbers will be increasing, the lenders will be decreasing. The fatal flaw to Prosper was that they treated the borrowers as their main customer instead of the lenders. They forgot the number 1 rule of economics, "supply and demand". They worried about keeping the demand (borrowers) high, and ignored the supply (lenders). They did not realize that the demand would always be there. There would never be a lack of borrowers. Prosper needed to increase the supply by courting the lenders. With this in mind, their main effort should have been servicing their lenders. The Idea of P2P lending is great, and could have worked. If/when Prosper fails, it will be because of one fatal error; they failed to do their best for the lenders. There are numerous issues brought up by lenders that prosper has ignored. One example where prosper neglected to service their lenders is the second loans issue. Prosper wanted to introduce second loans to its borrowers, but they ignored concerns lenders brought up. All prosper had to do was make it a condition to obtain a second loan only after the first was paid off in full. They could have even set it up to allow borrowers to obtain second loans that pay off the first loan with the remaining balance going to the borrowers bank account.  For example, a borrower still owes 4k on his first loan. He lists for a second loan of 5k. Once the loan is funded and verified, the borrower gets only 1000-fees. Prosper uses the other 4k to pay off the first loan. For obvious reasons, lenders do not like the idea of borrowers having to pay on 2 prosper loans at once. This is especially frustrating for the lenders of the first loan, when both loans go bad.
I agree 100% with you Loan shark, Prosper has to keep the lenders happy, the borrowers will always be there.
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ira01

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #128 on: August 31, 2008, 03:09:46 pm »

Larsen probably does, but I reckon it would wipe out a huge chunk of his net worth---so he would fight it with a hit parade of top notch attorneys.
Doesn't he have executive liability insurance?

Maybe, but I doubt his policy limits are $125M (or whatever Prosper's outstanding loan balance is).

IRA- my recollections in this area are not too swift and I know it is all conjecture until a judge/jury rules, but do you think anyone but the shareholders (I assume Prosper is a PC or something similar) would have any chance of getting beyond the corporate veil?

Assuming the loans are held to be a security one could not know that until after a judgment. I have to assume they had opinion of counsel before they issued loan one. Wouldn't this be enough to prevent a claim on personal liability? This would leave us in line with any other creditor wouldn’t it?

I can believe they are dumb but not stupid.

I don't know.  I haven't researched this myself, but I do recall seeing an article about the LC situation which, IIRC, quoted a securities lawyer as stating that there is personal liability for the corporate officers for selling unregistered securities.  I don't know if that is strict liability (for which an opinion letter would be no defense) or if it requires negligence or more on the part of the officer (which could be present here, although we don't know).  Also, it may well be that there is no opinion letter -- Prosper hasn't been well known so far for obtaining good legal advice.  
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The_Cat

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #129 on: August 31, 2008, 03:14:17 pm »

My own guess is that, if these ever are treated as securities that need registration, prior loans would be grandfathered under some "to be written" law.

....but that is just my own wild ass guess.

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Fred93

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2008, 03:28:30 pm »

Larsen probably does, but I reckon it would wipe out a huge chunk of his net worth---so he would fight it with a hit parade of top notch attorneys.

Judging by what we've seen so far, in the existing Prosper legal documents, and certainly in the Gaerke case, Larsen wouldn't know a top notch attorney if it bit him.

DakotahFury

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2008, 03:30:18 pm »

My own guess is that, if these ever are treated as securities that need registration, prior loans would be grandfathered under some "to be written" law.
True that...just remember what Witchel said back in 2000 when he was starting up PAC.com with Larsen and some other fatcats:
Quote
Politics is the bargain of the century. For $10 million you could do anything.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801EFDA113CF930A2575BC0A9669C8B63

Lets not forget how big of a political contributer Larsen is to the Dems. Could there be a legislative "fix" for this somewhere down the road?
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Urbi_et_Orbi

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2008, 03:32:22 pm »

did anyone happen to notice if this article was mentioned by any of the blogs on prosper's blogroll?

p2pnobank.com which is the rateladder aggregate of several of them has no mention of it.

Most of them are like lazyman though.They all know Prosper is broken & have moved on to other topics to draw in the ad clicks

Did LazyMan ever disclose the nature of his unique relationship with Prosper?
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christoofar215

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #133 on: August 31, 2008, 03:35:01 pm »


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801EFDA113CF930A2575BC0A9669C8B63


Oh God DF you brought back memories.   I remember that very article.   I thought it was lunacy that Silicon Valley big shots had started getting politicos to bow to them, even getting senators to come fly to THEM instead of them flying to Washington for dinner.

Earlier today  I think Urbi posted the pets.com logo... that was the famous dotcom that IPO'd and liquidated in bankruptcy within a matter of 9 months.
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The_Cat

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Re: Fool Article
« Reply #134 on: August 31, 2008, 06:31:17 pm »


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801EFDA113CF930A2575BC0A9669C8B63


Oh God DF you brought back memories.   I remember that very article.   I thought it was lunacy that Silicon Valley big shots had started getting politicos to bow to them, even getting senators to come fly to THEM instead of them flying to Washington for dinner.

Earlier today  I think Urbi posted the pets.com logo... that was the famous dotcom that IPO'd and liquidated in bankruptcy within a matter of 9 months.

You don't actually think the whores...um...  politicians in DC actually write the laws they sponsor anymore do you?  :P 
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