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[xraider]

To make you a little nuttier, I think I can accept what Bama said as fact.... NOTHING was corrected during the seven weeks after we posted about this on July 9.  NOTHING happened until Motley Fool got a hold of it.  I will happily, in this instance, use past behavior to predict future behavior.   

[Nora_Lenderbee]

* nora launches sharp red pencil at xraider

[Mtnchick]

* nora launches sharp red pencil at xraider

She can erase a pencil - use a magic marker

[ira01]

I'd have to look up about 48 loans (excluding the ones in bankruptcy), and then see if they had a payment after some cutoff date?  But we'd expect some payments even with no collection activity, so what exactly would I test for?

Well, since you wouldn't receive any loan payments (whether caused by Prosper or simply fortuitous) had Prosper sold your then-4+month lates in mid-April, I suppose any payments received after April 11 would be properly balanced against the money foregone from the cancelled debt sale.  But I guess that would be a big pain, unless it could be automated using the API or data download.

[Mtnchick]

Ira, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the only ones that would have gone to the JDB be the ones that aren't in collections or BK now? I have 14 of those and I'd be glad to double check but I'm 99% they haven't had a payment in months.

I have 51 total but 10 are in BK (though again, as brought up before, it would be nice if we were getting Chapter 13 payments........)

[bamalucky]

The only thing to keep me from going to college was the 10th,11th & 12th grade.

/end hijack

[ira01]

Ira, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the only ones that would have gone to the JDB be the ones that aren't in collections or BK now? I have 14 of those and I'd be glad to double check but I'm 99% they haven't had a payment in months.

Who knows with Prosper?  But probably not quite right.  For one thing, some loans have now gone BK AFTER when they would have been sold in April.  So lenders would have received their pittance from the JDB then, compared to 0.00 now (for Chapter 7's).  And God only knows what the presence or absence of a "collections" flag means.  I have 4 loans that are 4+++ (none are BK).  Two are in collections and 2 aren't.  Of the two that are in collections, one has been making roughly half-payments (about the monthly interest amount) every 6 weeks or so (since February, after making a double months payment in December) -- so this one didn't turn 4-months until around April (and IMHO it shouldn't have been sold off even had it just made 4-month status and had the debt sale gone forward).  The other one turned 4-months late in May, so it wouldn't have been sold off in April anyway.  There was a 1-month payment in June (marked OP, not CP, so may not have been due to AmSher), but nothing since.  

Of the two that aren't in collections, one is the thief who never made a single payment on his $24K loan.  The other went 4-months late in December, and then made a bit more than a monthly payment in March (still leaving him 4+months late, though).  Who knows if Prosper would have sold that one off in April or not.  

[Fred93]

I'd have to look up about 48 loans (excluding the ones in bankruptcy), and then see if they had a payment after some cutoff date?  But we'd expect some payments even with no collection activity, so what exactly would I test for?

Well, since you wouldn't receive any loan payments (whether caused by Prosper or simply fortuitous) had Prosper sold your then-4+month lates in mid-April, I suppose any payments received after April 11 would be properly balanced against the money foregone from the cancelled debt sale.  But I guess that would be a big pain, unless it could be automated using the API or data download.

Thinking a bit more ... Its even harder than that.  You see I know the set of loans that are 4+ now, and I could look at those and see which have their most recent payment before a certain date, but that isn't exactly the same as those loans that were 4+ late on a certain date (ie the debt sale cutoff date), because loans change state.  If a loan were 4+ late on the cutoff date, but then became current, I wouldn't see it.

One could theoretically use the loan status data in the prosper export database, as it shows dates of status changes, but I don't know anybody who is doing that.  Proprosper won't let you see that table, for example.

[Shenandoah]

I think it is pretty much indisputable that he's right.  You posted your Gaerke thread on July 9, and Doug Fuller spent a significant amount of time reading that thread on July 10.  So almost two months has elapsed since Prosper knew about its misrepesentation to the Court, yet it did NOTHING to correct that "error" until the TMF article created a major shitload of bad PR in the last few days.

Do we definitely know that DF registered FraudMan on .org?  Has any verification occurred to ensure that's really him?
Even if we know it's him on .com, how do we know someone didn't create a sock puppet with that name here?  Even if we know he reads here (he said so at PD08), how do we know he uses the same username?

I know it's most likely him, but if no one has verified we can't be certain, and it's a way he could claim ignorance of the whole situation.

[bamalucky]

I think it is pretty much indisputable that he's right.  You posted your Gaerke thread on July 9, and Doug Fuller spent a significant amount of time reading that thread on July 10.  So almost two months has elapsed since Prosper knew about its misrepesentation to the Court, yet it did NOTHING to correct that "error" until the TMF article created a major shitload of bad PR in the last few days.

Do we definitely know that DF registered FraudMan on .org?  Has any verification occurred to ensure that's really him?
Even if we know it's him on .com, how do we know someone didn't create a sock puppet with that name here?  Even if we know he reads here (he said so at PD08), how do we know he uses the same username?

I know it's most likely him, but if no one has verified we can't be certain, and it's a way he could claim ignorance of the whole situation.

IP's have been checked

[cubbiesnextyr]

In response to zcommodore’s comment:

First, we want to thank those who took the time find and point out that one of Prosper’s court documents related to the above referenced case incorrectly described the legal relationship among Prosper, the borrower and the lenders. The amended filing (correction) with the court will take place within the week, and we will post a follow-up comment once this has been completed. However, to be clear, this incorrect statement was not germane to the central issue of this case nor did it result in any changes to or have any bearing on Prosper’s legal agreements with lenders or borrowers. Regardless, we agree that we should have corrected this mistake and cleared up the confusion in a much more timely fashion. We sincerely apologize.

(emphasis added)

What are the odds we see a follow up comment?  Perhaps after we receive word from the lawyers on that right-of-offset issue? 

[ira01]

I'd have to look up about 48 loans (excluding the ones in bankruptcy), and then see if they had a payment after some cutoff date?  But we'd expect some payments even with no collection activity, so what exactly would I test for?

Well, since you wouldn't receive any loan payments (whether caused by Prosper or simply fortuitous) had Prosper sold your then-4+month lates in mid-April, I suppose any payments received after April 11 would be properly balanced against the money foregone from the cancelled debt sale.  But I guess that would be a big pain, unless it could be automated using the API or data download.

Thinking a bit more ... Its even harder than that.  You see I know the set of loans that are 4+ now, and I could look at those and see which have their most recent payment before a certain date, but that isn't exactly the same as those loans that were 4+ late on a certain date (ie the debt sale cutoff date), because loans change state.  If a loan were 4+ late on the cutoff date, but then became current, I wouldn't see it.

One could theoretically use the loan status data in the prosper export database, as it shows dates of status changes, but I don't know anybody who is doing that.  Proprosper won't let you see that table, for example.

Nah, it's easier than that.  Go to http://www.ericscc.com/lenders/Fred93/loans?sort=13&p=2 for a list of all your loans, sorted by status, starting on the second page which is where your 4+month lates start.  Click on the first one (119048), and you can immediately see that it went 4+months late on 2/24/08.  Hit Back, and click on the next one (25500).  4+months late on 5/27/08.  133462 on 1/23/08.  110268 on 7/23/08.  7055 on 12/27/07.  Etc.  That would probably take about 10 minutes to get a list of all your currently 4+month late loans that were 4+months at the beginning of April (or whatever day seems appropriate for cut-off date of the cancelled debt sale (I think Doug may even have posted what the cut-off date was)).  Then to see the last payment date, I think you would have to go to your Prosper account page, look at the list of your 4+month lates, and click on the each pertinent loan to see the payment history.  A pain, but probably not more than 30 minutes.  

What that doesn't get you is any loans that were 4+months late on 4/1/08 (or whenever), but which are less than that (or even current or PIF) now.  Somehow I doubt there are too many of those, but to see you would have run down your entire list of loans on Eric's as above (not just the currently 4+month lates) and see which, if any, had 4+month status in the past but not now.  More of a pain (considering you have 818 loans), but still perhaps doable (at least it would be very quick for each one. because few of these loans were ever 4+months late).  

I also could have sworn that someone used Proprosper around a year ago to generate the numbers of loans that were at one time 4+months late but had improved to a better status.  Thus, it would seem that the necessary data and infrastructure is available, although I have no idea how to do it.  

[ira01]

I think it is pretty much indisputable that he's right.  You posted your Gaerke thread on July 9, and Doug Fuller spent a significant amount of time reading that thread on July 10.  So almost two months has elapsed since Prosper knew about its misrepesentation to the Court, yet it did NOTHING to correct that "error" until the TMF article created a major shitload of bad PR in the last few days.

Do we definitely know that DF registered FraudMan on .org?  Has any verification occurred to ensure that's really him?
Even if we know it's him on .com, how do we know someone didn't create a sock puppet with that name here?  Even if we know he reads here (he said so at PD08), how do we know he uses the same username?

I know it's most likely him, but if no one has verified we can't be certain, and it's a way he could claim ignorance of the whole situation.

Well the timeline fits, seeing as how the .org account was registered September 14, 2007 -- I don't know if anyone here even knew he was "FraudMan" on .com that early, so the sock puppet idea seems unlikely.  But that's just speculation.  Maybe HO could take a look at his IP address and location and whatever other "Mod only" info he has access to and shed some light on the matter.  And the definitive answer may come through discovery.

[Mark12547]

To make you a little nuttier, I think I can accept what Bama said as fact.... NOTHING was corrected during the seven weeks after we posted about this on July 9.  NOTHING happened until Motley Fool got a hold of it.  I will happily, in this instance, use past behavior to predict future behavior.   

I have to side with Nora on what Bama said is not a FACT; rather, it was a statement expressing his (and my) expectations of Prosper's behavior based on their past behavior of inaction until their noses are rubbed in the mess.

It does seem rather characteristic of Prosper Marketplace, Inc. that they did nothing until The Motley Fool article appeared and ended up for a while being the top hit when one uses Google News to search for prosper.com.

If The Motley Fool article didn't get such wide press, I doubt that Prosper would have responded.

By the way, the regulars of The Motley Fool are probably the very types of lenders Prosper is looking for: individuals looking for better ways to invest their money and also happen to be Net savvy. It must be a blow to them when a writer for such a site expresses grave concern.

[Fred93]

you would have run down your entire list of loans on Eric's as above (not just the currently 4+month lates) and see which, if any, had 4+month status in the past but not now.  More of a pain (considering you have 818 loans), but still perhaps doable

Somehow I missed the "status history" feature of ericscc.  That's nice.  I knew that info was in one of the tables in Prosper's export database, but didn't know anyone was making that data visible.

It is daunting.  

What am I gonna gain by doing this calculation?  Doug is apparently saying we got about 1%  (ie 2/3 of the 1.5% bid he mentioned in earlier blog).  You doubt that they've collected 1%?  That doesn't seem like a difficult number to achieve.  He expressed this in a very positive light in the blog, but I don't see 1% as very positive.  How about getting me 10%, or 20%, or 30% ?