Prospers.ORG Prosper Forum

Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Prospers.ORG!   Login here

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down

Author Topic: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs  (Read 30224 times)

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1971/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« on: January 01, 2008, 02:46:25 pm »

I'm starting to get the medical bills and the EOBs from my insurance company for my recent hospital stay. At least 90% of them I have never heard of. Obviously I don't know the name of the cardiologist, anesthesia folks, infectious disease people, imaging group, reams of diagnostic doctors, etc.

So....let's say one of them has my address wrong. I don't get a bill. I'm not expecting a bill from that specific doctor/company because I've never heard of them. They send me to a collection agency and voila, I have a DQ.

BTW, another interesting thing - my hospital bill was over $142K but their "agreement" with BCBS gets them only $37K. Contractually I'm not responsible for the rest. If I didn't have insurance I'd be responsible for the full $142K. Bizarre.
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

leporello

  • Guest
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2008, 02:52:57 pm »

I'm starting to get the medical bills and the EOBs from my insurance company for my recent hospital stay. At least 90% of them I have never heard of. Obviously I don't know the name of the cardiologist, anesthesia folks, infectious disease people, imaging group, reams of diagnostic doctors, etc.

So....let's say one of them has my address wrong. I don't get a bill. I'm not expecting a bill from that specific doctor/company because I've never heard of them. They send me to a collection agency and voila, I have a DQ.

BTW, another interesting thing - my hospital bill was over $142K but their "agreement" with BCBS gets them only $37K. Contractually I'm not responsible for the rest. If I didn't have insurance I'd be responsible for the full $142K. Bizarre.
You might bring up this point with your hospital's central billing office and ask them if they have any clue as to what providers will be billing you. I have no idea how to prevent unknown/unexpected medical providers from screwing things up like this, but if anybody knows, I'd love to hear about it.
Logged

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1971/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2008, 02:58:57 pm »

Good idea, Lep.

What's even worse is that the names on the EOBs are different than the names I get on the bills. For instance, on the EOB there will be a doctor's name, but I get a bill from BlahBlah Radiology with no Dr. name attached. So far I've been able to match amounts, but seriously I've been spending no less than an hour a day on this crap.  >:(
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

Caladia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1433
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2008, 03:10:07 pm »

BTW, another interesting thing - my hospital bill was over $142K but their "agreement" with BCBS gets them only $37K. Contractually I'm not responsible for the rest. If I didn't have insurance I'd be responsible for the full $142K. Bizarre.

Yeah, this is a regular thing.  The insurance company negotiates lower rates for its clients, and in return, delivers large groups of patients to the doctor or hospital.  I found this out when I had a root canal last year.  I had used up what the insurance would pay, but I still benefited from being with that insurance company because I got a discount on the treatment.  Coolness!
Logged
Accept the ease with which it can be done.

threnody

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 03:16:37 pm »

Ask for an itemized bill from the hospital; you'd be amazed at how much that bandage or that painkiller cost.
Logged

Caladia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1433
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 03:20:26 pm »

Ask for an itemized bill from the hospital; you'd be amazed at how much that bandage or that painkiller cost.

Oh, good point!  I have a friend who was in the hospital with food poisoning.  When he got the bill, there was an $8.00 charge for "solution."  He went round and round with the hospital, trying to find out what "solution" they had given him.  Turned out it was the little paper cup of 7-up they gave him, to see if he could keep it down.  (They eventually took that charge off the bill.)

Logged
Accept the ease with which it can be done.

lenderguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 1245
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 04:13:02 pm »

BTW, another interesting thing - my hospital bill was over $142K but their "agreement" with BCBS gets them only $37K. Contractually I'm not responsible for the rest. If I didn't have insurance I'd be responsible for the full $142K. Bizarre.

It's not bizarre (as somebody else noted) but this is going to be the downfall of our health care system.  Why do I say this?  One reason: Doctors.  Medical school costs keep going up and up and up, as does the corresponding debt levels of the graduates.   Grads take on the debt because "doctors are rich and can afford to pay it off later."  Not so fast.  Money Magazine did an article on a young married couple, both of whom are doctors.  They're fresh out of med school, and have $400k in combined student loan debt, as well as a $300k mortgage.

Is the allure (and perhaps promise) of great paying jobs going to be there for a high enough percentage of doctors to make it worth while?  I doubt it.  Medicine is a business.  Hospitals exist to make a profit, as do insurance companies.  Insurance companies are going to throw their weight around and drive down costs as low as possible.  Correspondingly, this drops the revenue for the hospitals.  Hospitals are forced to make up their costs from "private pay" patients, so they drive up the "retail" rate.  But who are these private pay patients?  They're either insolvent or they're rich.  As the price of medicine goes up, it becomes cheaper for the rich to get medicine over seas.  And we all know that the insolvent don't pay, and they *really* don't want to pay medical bills.  So, worst case scenario is that the "retail" patients, who are supposedly charged lots of money, never pay a dime.

So basically, as the insurance companies squeeze hospitals, hospitals are going to be squeezing doctors.  I just don't see the incentive to become a doctor anymore.
Logged

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1971/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2008, 04:14:10 pm »

Ask for an itemized bill from the hospital; you'd be amazed at how much that bandage or that painkiller cost.

Oh, I have it. It's wild. They even charged for pillows, gowns and towels. The oxygen I was on was $800 a day. I think around $40K was pharmacy. My Imitrex which is overpriced at $215 for 9 100mg pills was over $1K for 6mg IV. Just BEING in the ICU was $3500 a day.

I thought they had sent BCBS a wrong amount for my hysterectomy of $32K (which BCBS paid less than $4K for) but after seeing this, I suspect that was correct.

I'm not a fan of Michael Moore and I think his mockmentaries are overly biased, but I did watch Sicko the other night I have to say it's the first one I've actually partially agreed with.
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

puckhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2008, 06:00:51 pm »

BTW, another interesting thing - my hospital bill was over $142K but their "agreement" with BCBS gets them only $37K. Contractually I'm not responsible for the rest. If I didn't have insurance I'd be responsible for the full $142K. Bizarre.

It's not bizarre (as somebody else noted) but this is going to be the downfall of our health care system.  Why do I say this?  One reason: Doctors.  Medical school costs keep going up and up and up, as does the corresponding debt levels of the graduates.   Grads take on the debt because "doctors are rich and can afford to pay it off later."  Not so fast.  Money Magazine did an article on a young married couple, both of whom are doctors.  They're fresh out of med school, and have $400k in combined student loan debt, as well as a $300k mortgage.

Is the allure (and perhaps promise) of great paying jobs going to be there for a high enough percentage of doctors to make it worth while?  I doubt it.  Medicine is a business.  Hospitals exist to make a profit, as do insurance companies.  Insurance companies are going to throw their weight around and drive down costs as low as possible.  Correspondingly, this drops the revenue for the hospitals.  Hospitals are forced to make up their costs from "private pay" patients, so they drive up the "retail" rate.  But who are these private pay patients?  They're either insolvent or they're rich.  As the price of medicine goes up, it becomes cheaper for the rich to get medicine over seas.  And we all know that the insolvent don't pay, and they *really* don't want to pay medical bills.  So, worst case scenario is that the "retail" patients, who are supposedly charged lots of money, never pay a dime.

So basically, as the insurance companies squeeze hospitals, hospitals are going to be squeezing doctors.  I just don't see the incentive to become a doctor anymore.

I'll just chime in since I am a doctor and just finished residency.  You're basically right on.  The amount of work to get through all the training and the associated stress (which comes from more directions that you can understand unless you go through it) is probably larger than any other profession, in general.  The compensation to physicians has generally gone down compared to inflation for the last 2-3 decades (there are some specialty specific exceptions but this largely holds true - especially for primary care doctors).   Add to this tuitions that have far outpaced inflation over a similar period. 

I, for instance, incurred almost $200,000 in debt to get through medical school alone (college was essentially free do to academic scholarships).  I happen to live a very frugal life and did much better financially than many of my peers at my school that also don't have rich parents. 

I also benefited from historically low student loan rates.   Most of my debt was consolidated around 2.75%.  Also, I was able to defer payments through residency which was absolutely necessary.  I could have never made those payments on a resident salary and maintained any sort of life.  If I had a family, game over without deferment.  Students today do not have these benefits.   Loan rates are much higher and rules are about to be put in place that will no longer qualify residents for deferment.   You can start to see there is a looming problem for our present students who, on average, pay more for tuition than I did.

Most people don't realize it yet, but most US med school grads no longer go into primary care, in part because the compensation is poor.  As a result, more and more the bottom of the barrel graduates are going into it...frequently these are foreign medical grads that barely speak English (to be fair some are quite good, but on the whole it is frightening how bad some are).  Take this with the fact that fewer college grads are apply to medical school every year and quality is on the way down.  To be a good doctor you have to be motivated, enjoy your job and bright. 

There is less competition to get into medical school so it follows that the average med student is not quite as motivated and/or bright as in the past.

Fewer doctors today enjoy their job - surveys bare this out.  One reason is that some students after 1-2 years discover medicine is not their thing.  Ideally, these generally bright, hard working people would have the mobility to change careers to something that is more fitting.  However, when someone is already $50-100,000 in the hole, frequently they feel trapped and forced to continue with something they don't enjoy.  This happens *alot* nowadays.  Its been one of the shockers of being in medicine.  The common theme is 'I would have left after so many years but I could never afford to do that'.  This leads to some apathetic doctors more interested in pulling a paycheck that caring for patients. 

There are some complex problem here.  In part, improved compensation would help.   Finding ways to reduce tuition would help, too.  I would actually argue compensation that more closely related to amount of training rather than specialty would help even more, but there is still a large discrepancy in how much physicians are trained vs amount payed compared to other fields.   

Logged

xraider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Posts: 6805
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 06:07:19 pm »

Adding to what Puckhead says, a lot of doctors go into areas that encourage cash payments, such as plastic surgery or dermatology.  A lot of dermatologists also have their own skin care lines etc or sell makeup.

There's also a lot of medical fraud.

Logged
Prosper missed me.  They lifted my suspension a day early.

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1971/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 06:09:58 pm »

Let me also bitch and moan about "Nurse Technicians". In 2 visits, I didn't have a decent one. Apparently this is a position you can get with less than 2 months of training. It shows. During my hyster I watched as one constantly "lost" the cart (with the BP, heart rate monitor and thermometer). Many times it was in my room......Another one couldn't speak or understand English AT ALL and I will swear on a Bible that the one in the ICU was on meth. Granted, these aren't given many responsibilities, but I noted on my bill that I paid $199 each time they came in to "check" on me so I can tell that's a massive profit center.

My personal doctor is 50 now and part of a 3 doctor internal medicine group. He no longer accepts medicare/medicaid patients because of the low payments and paperwork, nor has he taken any new patients in years (I guess he figures by the time we all die out it will be time for him to retire). He's not making as much money as he COULD be making, but he's comfortable and happy not having to deal with the endless BS.

There was an old kid's doctor in Alpharetta (northern burb of ATL) who worked out of her house until she was in her 80's or 90's and often took livestock, services and produce as payment. These days she wouldn't be able to pay her malpractice insurance :(

And my stepmother drives 4 hours to Alabama to be a midwife for 48 hours every week because the malpractice insurance is so high on OBs.

It's like P-----r - I know there's a problem but I don't know how to fix it :(

ETA - holy shit - the doc in Alpharetta was 104 when she retired! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Denmark
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 06:13:14 pm by Mtnchick »
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

puckhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 06:11:15 pm »

Ask for an itemized bill from the hospital; you'd be amazed at how much that bandage or that painkiller cost.

Oh, I have it. It's wild. They even charged for pillows, gowns and towels. The oxygen I was on was $800 a day. I think around $40K was pharmacy. My Imitrex which is overpriced at $215 for 9 100mg pills was over $1K for 6mg IV. Just BEING in the ICU was $3500 a day.

I thought they had sent BCBS a wrong amount for my hysterectomy of $32K (which BCBS paid less than $4K for) but after seeing this, I suspect that was correct.

I'm not a fan of Michael Moore and I think his mockmentaries are overly biased, but I did watch Sicko the other night I have to say it's the first one I've actually partially agreed with.

Unfortunately, hospitals are forced to nickel and dime for just about everything and it is quite sad.  Medicare/Medicaid basically decides how much they will pay for any given diagnosis.   Insurance companies follow this as a guide when negotiating their rates.  It is not uncommon for the reimbursement to be at a loss to the hospital.  Actually that is almost considered the norm anymore.  To make up for this, hospitals and groups actively find other things to bill for to make up for this that will be reimbursed.  Its gotten quite ridiculous as you have found out.   Some centers active encourage physicians to do certain tests just because the reimbursement rate is so much better (these are usually the newer exotic tests and may not be needed). 

Fortunately, I have little to do with the billing process but my patients frequently relay similar experiences to yours. 
Logged

puckhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 06:16:28 pm »

Adding to what Puckhead says, a lot of doctors go into areas that encourage cash payments, such as plastic surgery or dermatology.  A lot of dermatologists also have their own skin care lines etc or sell makeup.

There's also a lot of medical fraud.



You're exactly right.  I'd say dermatologists and radiologist are presently most guilty of screwing the system.  They require little more training than a primary care doctor (their training is 4 years compared to 3 for most primary care doctors).   Despite this they make more than 3 times more money annually than a primary care doctor.  My last girlfriend (a dermatologist) was entertaining offers >$300,000 a years starting out.   

They do this by purposefully limiting the number of residency spots, thus limiting the number of individuals in their fields driving up demand.   Just to rub it in, they also have much easier lifestyles than other doctors.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 06:19:15 pm by puckhead »
Logged

Mtnchick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +1971/-1063
  • Posts: 34374
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 06:20:25 pm »

They also have much easier lifestyles than other doctors.

I always said if I married a doctor it would be a dermatologist. It's not like they get a lot of middle of the night emergency calls.......

I remember going to one as a teen for acne. Granted this was back in the mid 70's but the treatment was antibiotics, dry ice rubbed on my face and the best - a sunlamp :)
Logged
Classic comment from Urbi to a poster who said they were leaving:

"Once again, we note that your threats are hollow and you come across like a sad, lonely blowhard.

I doubt anyone here gives a shit about you.  We pretty much all know that you are a vile and unethical parasite of a human being with an abnormal craving for attention."

puckhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: I can see how people get unknown medical DQs
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 06:25:30 pm »

Let me also bitch and moan about "Nurse Technicians". In 2 visits, I didn't have a decent one. Apparently this is a position you can get with less than 2 months of training. It shows. During my hyster I watched as one constantly "lost" the cart (with the BP, heart rate monitor and thermometer). Many times it was in my room......Another one couldn't speak or understand English AT ALL and I will swear on a Bible that the one in the ICU was on meth. Granted, these aren't given many responsibilities, but I noted on my bill that I paid $199 each time they came in to "check" on me so I can tell that's a massive profit center.

My personal doctor is 50 now and part of a 3 doctor internal medicine group. He no longer accepts medicare/medicaid patients because of the low payments and paperwork, nor has he taken any new patients in years (I guess he figures by the time we all die out it will be time for him to retire). He's not making as much money as he COULD be making, but he's comfortable and happy not having to deal with the endless BS.

There was an old kid's doctor in Alpharetta (northern burb of ATL) who worked out of her house until she was in her 80's or 90's and often took livestock, services and produce as payment. These days she wouldn't be able to pay her malpractice insurance :(

And my stepmother drives 4 hours to Alabama to be a midwife for 48 hours every week because the malpractice insurance is so high on OBs.

It's like P-----r - I know there's a problem but I don't know how to fix it :(

ETA - holy shit - the doc in Alpharetta was 104 when she retired! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Denmark

Ya, the whole PA, nurse practioner, nurse tech thing is booming right now.  It is a direct result of doctors deferring poorly compensated stuff to less trained professionals.   Not that there are not good PA's, NPs, ect but their training is no where close to what an MD does.   For the common stuff they are good.   For anything mildly complicated I'd be wary.     Basically, we are getting what we pay for.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up