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Author Topic: Prosper makes good on past errors  (Read 69604 times)

lenderguy

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 12:33:35 pm »

trav,

Prosper needs accountability, period.  You're doing a great job of holding them accountable by publishing them here.  Maybe it isn't necessary to bring in the AG's office so quickly on future MNH reports, but in the mean time, don't stop posting them.  If Prosper ever returns to embracing the community, its members, and its suggestions, then, and only then, would I suggest giving Prosper "first crack" at your MNH reports.  I wouldn't consider Prosper to be embracing the community until they issue a public apology.  I don't blame them for shutting down the .com forums and moderating the new ones, I really don't.  I do blame them for heavily attacking .org, its supporters, and the prosperreport.com site.  They shouldn't get away with that very easily just for issuing one mea culpa.

So keep 'em coming on the .org.  They don't call it "tough love" for nothing.
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ira01

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 12:35:50 pm »

To its credit, Prosper has now publicly acknowledged these errors, and its promise to correct them goes beyond the minimum which was required.  Not only is it paying interest (at a rate higher than the actual - as opposed to advertised - median ROI for Prosper lenders) . . . .

I think that paying interest at the legal rate was the appropriate move (as I posted here somewhere weeks ago).  But this does raise an interesting question.  Someone should try to post a blog comment stating that they promptly reinvest all of their incoming payments, so why isn't Prosper giving them the "9.49-12.81%" that Prosper advertises?  ;D

Quote
On the other hand, I remain unconvinced that it really takes two months or more for Prosper to write the code required to generate the refunds.  (Of course, IANAProgrammer.)  

In fairness, Prosper said it would be rolling out the fixes, starting mid to late-January (about 1.5-3.5 weeks), then mid-February (about 5 weeks), and then finally end of February (less than 2 months from now).  That sounds like the same programmer (or team of programmers) will be handling each fix, one after the other.  I think that timeframe is reasonable.  What was UNreasonable, is that it took Prosper until now to acknowledge this problem and its intended solution (although Prosper did state it would repay lenders (and I think GL's), it never mentioned the interest before, and it never addressed the GL holdback issue before).  It shouldn't have taken Prosper more than a day or two to review Trav's MNH, and post it's intended full solution.  

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And I hope that, somewhere in all of this, Prosper has awakened to the need to establish tighter controls within its operation.  Someone on Prosper's payroll should be responsible for regularly reviewing Prosper's operations (as well as planned FuOperations) to ensure that they conform to the legal agreements (and vice versa); that really shouldn't be my job.  

Absolutely correct.

Quote
It would be nice to think that today's blog announcement means Prosper has decided to stop waging war on the lending community (or at least realized that its attempts to suppress public criticism have been futile), but the suspension of Epictetus earlier this morning sends the opposite message.  And there is still the little matter of Prosper's rejection of my offer to purchase a defaulted loan (MNH #4), which resulted in a loss of about $500 spread among 34 lenders.

As I mentioned in the introduction to MNH #1, there was a time - before Prosper began its attacks on the community - when I gave Prosper the courtesy of a "heads up" before publicly posting about major issues like these, and allowed Prosper a couple weeks to preempt me by announcing that the problem would be fixed.  In spite of today's mixed messages, one could argue that this would be a good time to pause the posting of major MNH Reports and see if Prosper is willing to work with the community in a less adversarial manner.  (I do have a few updates to post on my blog and some loose ends to tie up on the existing MNH Reports; I would still proceed with those as I find the time.)

Along those lines, one might consider LoanChimp's Warm & Fuzzy criticism of my approach (http://warmnfuzzyprosperblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/response-to-travs-mnh-report-1.html), as well as the recent poll in the Verified Lenders section which showed only plurality (40%) support for a class action lawsuit against Prosper (30% opposed, with plenty of maybes and WGAFs).

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?

I do not see any change of attitude by Prosper.  They were over a barrel with the missapropriation issues, and they knew it (and they knew that the regulators knew it).  So they did little more than was legally necessary.  Sure they could have tried to recoup the money erroneously paid, but they probably figured that it wouldn't be worth the hassle.  Their mention of you in their blog post was a nice touch, but they were probably hoping that it would buy them some peace from future MNH reports.

IMHO, much more should be required from Prosper before you cease publishing future MNH reports.  For starters, Prosper could end its war against .org.  For another thing, they could reinstate all of us suspended lenders, and make a public posting that they want to try to improve relations with the lending community.  It may be too late, but I don't think it is asking too much for Prosper to try.
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ira01

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 12:37:38 pm »

do you think this is an example of a paradigm shift in attitude by prosper?

Have they sent you a letter appologizing for their actions against prosperreport, and withdrawing their baseless legal claims?   :ninja:
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Mtnchick

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 12:41:30 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?

In 2 years P-----r has shown us that the ONLY WAY to get them to make changes is to hit them over the head with a baseball bat. I suggest you continue using the bat. If you don't then we are back to Square One where everything is ignored until the masses revolt, therefore wasting valuable time.

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traveler505

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2008, 12:51:36 pm »

Quote
In fairness, Prosper said it would be rolling out the fixes, starting mid to late-January (about 1.5-3.5 weeks), then mid-February (about 5 weeks), and then finally end of February (less than 2 months from now).  That sounds like the same programmer (or team of programmers) will be handling each fix, one after the other.  I think that timeframe is reasonable.  What was UNreasonable, is that it took Prosper until now to acknowledge this problem and its intended solution (although Prosper did state it would repay lenders (and I think GL's), it never mentioned the interest before, and it never addressed the GL holdback issue before).  It shouldn't have taken Prosper more than a day or two to review Trav's MNH, and post it's intended full solution.  

MNH #1 (Misappropriation of lender funds, including both the servicing fees and GL fees) was originally posted, both here and on the now-deleted .com forums, on October 31.  (I_M_Spartacus had posted about the GL fees issue and complained to Prosper customer service prior to that.  AFAIK, he never received any reply.)  Shira's post promising corrective action appeared November 2.  In mid-December, Sophtommy00 (IIRC) began pestering Prosper, and received an estimate of "sometime in the first quarter."  So I count 2.5 to 3 months from MNH Report to correction on servicing fees; 3 to 3.5 months on GL fees.  (Add another week or two if you use I_M_Spartacus' complaint as the starting date.)

MNH #5 (Withholding GL fees) was originally posted here and on my blog on December 26.  The MNH Report correction time is right at 2 months for that one.
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112233

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2008, 12:52:22 pm »

do you think this is an example of a paradigm shift in attitude by prosper?

Have they sent you a letter appologizing for their actions against prosperreport, and withdrawing their baseless legal claims?   :ninja:
no, but my Prosper account was suspended
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112233

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 01:03:39 pm »

Im glad Prosper still finds the old .com forums useful. It seems we both agree it's good to have that history to borrow from.

Quote from: Prosper Blog on January 5, 2007
... We want to thank and acknowledge Traveler505 for bringing these errors to our attention. This is an example of how the Prosper community helps us improve the site and our operations on an ongoing basis ...

http://www.prosperreport.com/prosper/forums/archive/threads/3/2/0/32041.1.HTM#post397489
Quote from: Prosper Shira on November 2, 2007 3:39 PM
... a classic example of how the Prosper community helps us improve the site and our operations on an ongoing basis. You are correct: there is a discrepancy between our legal agreements and the way we collect servicing fees ...
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HollowOak

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 01:15:36 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?

I'm responding on the "inside" to this question. Here is my op-ed piece on where I see "us" stand vis-a-vis PMI.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 02:08:45 pm by HollowOak »
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Tokyo Joe

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 01:16:24 pm »

7% interest?  You can make more money this way than you did from the loans themselves...
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Mark12547

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 01:40:07 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?

My vote would be to continue posting the MNH Reports. I doubt Prosper would correct their wrongs unless the wrongs are made embarrassingly public or Prosper got pressure from a regulatory agency.
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leporello

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2008, 02:30:31 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?
Don't let up. Not one bit. Keep on hitting them where it hurts, and make them take notice, and then action.

Their doing what they did is not an olive branch or a conciliatory gesture or a show of good faith. It's making up for their earlier sins and lawsuit avoidance.

Here is my olive branch to you, Trav:

http://blog.traveler505.com/

My apologies for having omitted it the first time.
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traveler505

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2008, 02:35:02 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?
Don't let up. Not one bit. Keep on hitting them where it hurts, and make them take notice, and then action.

Their doing what they did is not an olive branch or a conciliatory gesture or a show of good faith. It's making up for their earlier sins and lawsuit avoidance.

Here is my olive branch to you, Trav:

http://blog.traveler505.com/

My apologies for having omitted it the first time.


No apology needed.  My "What? No link to my blog?" was directed toward the Prosper.com blog itself, not you. 
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"Trav, you can always take up another hobby..." -- BigGulp

Now blogging at http://blog.traveler505.com, home of the MNH Reports and other commentary on Prosper.com and P2P lending in general.

Need Help with Credit Repair & Rebuilding?  Try CreditBoards.com.

leporello

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2008, 02:37:42 pm »

What do you think?  Should I pause the reports (or resume giving Prosper a "heads-up"), or should I continue posting MNH Reports as I have been doing?  Would you want to see an additional show of good faith on Prosper's part before I change course?  If so, what?
Don't let up. Not one bit. Keep on hitting them where it hurts, and make them take notice, and then action.

Their doing what they did is not an olive branch or a conciliatory gesture or a show of good faith. It's making up for their earlier sins and lawsuit avoidance.

Here is my olive branch to you, Trav:

http://blog.traveler505.com/

My apologies for having omitted it the first time.


No apology needed.  My "What? No link to my blog?" was directed toward the Prosper.com blog itself, not you. 
I know, silly. I was just teasing you. Should have put a smiley in there.
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Renoan

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2008, 03:35:00 pm »

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed they did this. Unless this is a 180-degree turn by Prosper and their practices all this does is take away any grounded basis for lenders to have a problem with them. They can still carry-on their censorship and keep in place the suspension of many accounts. What leverage does the community now have against Prosper in getting them to reverse those suspensions? You can't even complain about their legal errors because they now have fixed some of the big ones (including accusations of not complying with past lender agreements).

Now, new lenders will just see this community as a bunch of grumpy old-timers with no basis for their anger. Afterall, who cares about your account suspensions as long as it's not happening to them, right?   >:(
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112233

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Re: Prosper makes good on past errors
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2008, 03:38:09 pm »

trav, did prosper ever let you report these items in the new forums?
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