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Author Topic: SO's ... you really want to use them?  (Read 4238 times)

mhs505

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SO's ... you really want to use them?
« on: January 19, 2008, 02:42:30 am »

What on earth was the criteria that these people set up to fire on this listing???

http://www.prosper.com/lend/listing.aspx?listingID=264488

Sheesh folks, do you really want current DQ's?   Do you really want over 100% revolving credit utilization?

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Fred93

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 02:53:10 am »

I think the balanced portfolio plan would bid on that.

ducks

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 03:08:34 am »

Being in trouble with debt and borrowing money for a predictable annual expense after retirement means trouble. Any responsible person planning retirement would make sure they are out of debt first.

Perhaps for "retired" we should read "semi-unemployed."
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mhs505

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2008, 03:12:15 am »

I think the balanced portfolio plan would bid on that.


Well, that's just nuts!  :)
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onthefence

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 09:28:36 am »

$3k in annual dues & $16k+ on credit cards?  I think someone is hoping to kick the bucket & not worry about debts.
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Mark12547

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2008, 11:39:51 am »

The first SO of the Moderate Portfolio would fire on the listing.

However, it does appear that Prosper is still tweaking the portfolios, so what is true today (at least on their display of Portfolios) might not be true at the end of the next business day.
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j9359

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2008, 12:59:48 pm »

The first SO of the Moderate Portfolio would fire on the listing.

Looks like you are correct, and they managed to bid it down to 16.75%

Does anyone know how the Portfolio plan orders are scheduled ?  In this case it looks like there were more than enough PP SO bids to fill the loan and they fired off every 5 minutes or so until the rate got down to 16.75%.  It would seem to require some sort of fairness algorithm to pick who gets a bid placed in cases like this.
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LoanChimp

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 01:24:29 pm »

I didn't realize the Portfolio Plans were meant to pump n dump...  :D
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Mark12547

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 01:35:10 pm »

Does anyone know how the Portfolio plan orders are scheduled ?

I don't know about Portfolio Plans themselves, but at one time on the old forums a Prosper employee did state that SOs are fired in a "round robin" fashion so, while they may appear to be random, they seem to be the fairest way to distribute bidding across all lenders who have SOs. On the flip side, the same message said there was nothing a lender could do to get one SO to fire before another SO, not even by changing names.

Since Portfolio Plans appear to be built on top of SOs, I would suspect they work similarly.
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patio11

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Re: SO's ... you really want to use them?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 12:31:16 am »

>>
I didn't realize the Portfolio Plans were meant to pump n dump...
>>

I mentioned this on the old forums, but I think that successful implementation of PPs does amount to "pump n dump", where pump n dump is characterized by getting as many listings as possible to 100%.  I mentioned that this would have nice implications for Prosper, considering they get money for originations.

Consider a world where, for clarity, we have one just one slice of the pie with 3 loans for $5k each.  There is $12,000 in the *total* PP pool for this slice of the pie, and the PP slice is bidding at 21%.  The three loans are at 22, 25, and 28%.  What happens when the PP daemon comes around to bid?

* The first $5,000 of the pool bids on the 28%, obviously.
* The next $50 comes up.  Where does it go?  27.99% > 25%, so it bids on the filled loan, displacing $50 which was already bid on it.
* Continue above step until that loan is bid to below 25%.
* The $5,000 fills the 25% loan to maximum.
* The next $50 comes up.  There are two loans at a fraction below 25%, and one loan at 22%.  It jumps on one of the higher loans, displacing $50.
* Money spills across both loans until they are reduced to below 22%.
* The final $2000 attempts to fill the 22% loan.

Thus, we see here that portfolio plans maximize loan origination for Prosper -- instead of having lenders inefficiently allocate money across these three loans, possibly filling the first two to $4k and $3k and leaving $5k unspent because of signaling problems, Prosper notches two more originations.  They also tend to bid the bejesus out of loans which are in slices that the PPs (and those lenders using PP -- remember, there are four options) prefer.  This makes the loan rates more predictable (good for borrowers, perhaps less good for lenders since you can no longer exploit irrational prejudices like "Ugly picture = no bids = high interest rate for a clean C") and results in more originations, which is good for everyone.  Well, OK, maybe some lemmders are going to need to unlearn "100% funded = 100% safe"!

I don't think this mechanic is dishonest (like the P&Ds of yore were), but I also don't think it is intentional.  Mark my words, some engineer brought this up at a meeting and he will be getting a major bonus on his next evaluation for this idea.
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