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Author Topic: Rash of early payoffs  (Read 9375 times)

sreeb

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Rash of early payoffs
« on: March 23, 2008, 11:49:19 am »

I'm seeing lots of early payoffs lately.  Enough that it is starting to noticeably impact my returns.  I'm not sure if this is due to my slowly ageing loan base or if borrowers who can pay are getting scared by the economy and paying down their debts at an accelerated rate.
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112233

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 11:52:04 am »

tax refunds? I would be happy they thought of prosper first
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xraider

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 12:40:03 pm »

Don't complain.....  I'd trade early payoffs for late defaults any day!
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beerbud1

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 01:00:51 pm »

Don't complain.....  I'd trade early payoffs for late defaults any day!
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cubbiesnextyr

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 01:16:05 pm »

tax refunds? I would be happy they thought of prosper first

I think we saw the same thing last year as well.  Extra lates when the Christmas bills come in the mail and extra payoffs when the refund check comes in the mail.
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sreeb

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 01:20:31 pm »

Well early payments are better than defaults but not as good as reliable payers.  They effectively reduce the total pool so the defaults represent a higher percentage of the loans remaining.

I have suffered 4 in Jan, 4 in Feb, and 5 so far in Mar out of 240 active loans.  It's a lot and it appears to be getting worse.

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cubbiesnextyr

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 01:23:39 pm »

Well early payments are better than defaults but not as good as reliable payers.  They effectively reduce the total pool so the defaults represent a higher percentage of the loans remaining.

I have suffered 4 in Jan, 4 in Feb, and 5 so far in Mar out of 240 active loans.  It's a lot and it appears to be getting worse.

It'll slow down in April, the people that are getting refunds file quick (for the most part).  So you should be back to your normal amounts in the next month.
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The_Cat

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 07:07:25 pm »

I wonder if we won't see another similar surge in May?
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Mtnchick

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 07:09:06 pm »

I will forgo whatever interest I may have earned for an early payoff!! :)
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Capital_Finance_Group

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 07:18:44 pm »

I will forgo whatever interest I may have earned for an early payoff!! :)

here here - a payoff is a loan that will not go bad.
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mothandrust

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 09:33:08 pm »

Well early payments are better than defaults but not as good as reliable payers.  They effectively reduce the total pool so the defaults represent a higher percentage of the loans remaining.

I have suffered 4 in Jan, 4 in Feb, and 5 so far in Mar out of 240 active loans.  It's a lot and it appears to be getting worse.

I lost an AA last week to this same rash. 

If you're a reinvesting lender, early payoffs act as a kind of Gresham's Law (especially in a declining interest rate environment) because the borrowers whose finances are improving can get better rates will pay off. 

But the borrowers that are hitting hard times will not pay you off, neither will they off you 5% more interest to compensate you for the increased risk.

All the loans that paid you off were good picks--but now you have to reinvest.

When you reinvest, you will naturally pick some loans that, 6 months in the future from now, will improve and others will deteriorate. 

The good ones will pay off, the bad ones never will.  Reinvest.

Keep doing that, and you'll eventually you'll have only bad loans in your portfolio.

So payoffs are bad for reinvesting lenders.  But if you're just trying to get your funds out of Prosper--I can understand liking the payoffs.
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nonattender

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 11:34:40 pm »

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mothandrust

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 11:55:31 am »

Another issue which always comes up is that there's two reasons why loans default--one is that "life happens" to an individual borrower and the other is that it is a fraudulent listing from day 1.

If you reinvest you are always at the risk that a "life event" will happen in the life of one person at a time at a given time.

But if you're getting repayments, you take the scam risk repeatedly.

I think I calculated once that 0.5% of the AA loans were scams, and that Prosper had reimbursed lenders on nearly all of those which made 0-1 payments and as long as that continues, lenders are protected.

This scam risk would be 1-(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995) = 0.97% for 6 prepays in the 3-year period.

The more repayments you a reinvesting lender gets, the greater the risk he will get a scam loan.

The optimal number of repayments for such a lender is 0.
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sreeb

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 01:55:51 pm »

I think there is a much more graduated scale between scam and life happens.  If bad things have happened to an AA but the ratings agency hasn't caught on, is that a scam?  If a borrowers marriage is looking shaky are the obligated to disclose?

I believe that credit ratings attempt to quantify both the borrowers willingness and the borrowers resources allowing payment despite "life events".  These are estimates and the credit raters don't  have as good a view of the future as the borrower may.  In theory, an AA is much less likely to have a "life event" than an E.  For an HR, a flat tire may be a life event.  For an AA, it may take a totalled car and 2 months in recovery before they can walk.

The ratings aren't perfect either.  I think the key to making good bids is simply to reject those where the borrowers statement hint that they may be overrated.

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Nora_Lenderbee

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Re: Rash of early payoffs
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 01:58:56 pm »


This scam risk would be 1-(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995)(.995) = 0.97% for 6 prepays in the 3-year period.

The more repayments you a reinvesting lender gets, the greater the risk he will get a scam loan.

The optimal number of repayments for such a lender is 0.

To carry this to its logical conclusion, the optimal strategy is never to lend in the first place.
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