Prospers.ORG Prosper Forum

Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Prospers.ORG!   Login here

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Holy Pinocchio !!!!  (Read 7387 times)

iLIE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« on: May 13, 2008, 03:28:23 pm »

Market Commentary By Prosper Co-founder and Chief Executive Officer, Chris Larsen

In April, we saw the supply of loan listings with an attractive risk-return tradeoff hit an all time high and approximately double compared to the prior month.


http://blog.prosper.com/
Logged
Some people are like slinkys; they really don't have a purpose in life , but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

iLIE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 03:30:32 pm »

Definitions

Attractive Risk-Return Tradeoff: For purposes of this survey release, listings are considered to have attractive returns if, based on historical loan repayment performance of Prosper borrowers with similar characteristics, they are priced sufficiently to compensate lenders for risk.


I'd like to say that this wouldn't be possible if you would sell the $6.5 million in 4+ late loans on your books & add them to said performance data.
Logged
Some people are like slinkys; they really don't have a purpose in life , but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

NewHorizon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3914
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 03:45:38 pm »

My comment:
Quote
Regarding "actual delinquency performance to date," are the loans that Mr. Fuller mentioned here
http://blog.prosper.com/2008/05/02/debt-sale-update/
considered delinquent for the purposes of this calculation?

... altho' I don't know why I bother.  Approval of the comment seems iffy at best.  And of course it's not like the original author of the blog post is actually going to respond.   :(
Logged

Staneslav

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +7/-1
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 03:52:32 pm »

a
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:41:19 pm by Staneslav »
Logged
Look to my coming, at first light, on the day of the Cub's mathematical elimination. At dawn, look to the NL Central.
My apologies to Tolkien.

iLIE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2008, 03:53:46 pm »

He's claiming that according to PP,that loan listings are looking better(higher lender rates) & theres more of them.
Logged
Some people are like slinkys; they really don't have a purpose in life , but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Staneslav

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +7/-1
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2008, 04:46:01 pm »

a
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:35:42 pm by Staneslav »
Logged
Look to my coming, at first light, on the day of the Cub's mathematical elimination. At dawn, look to the NL Central.
My apologies to Tolkien.

beerbud1

  • Guest
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2008, 06:07:58 pm »

He's claiming that according to PP,that loan listings are looking better(higher lender rates) & theres more of them.

Are they originating more loans? It didn't look like it from the numbers they were posting.

Not originating more loans, but more loan listings and more higher quality loan listings is my interpretation.
Logged

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-13252
  • Posts: 50506
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2008, 07:37:52 pm »

More creative accounting from Larsen -- how typical:
Quote
Attractive Risk-Return Tradeoff: For purposes of this survey release, listings are considered to have attractive returns if, based on historical loan repayment performance of Prosper borrowers with similar characteristics, they are priced sufficiently to compensate lenders for risk. Risk includes both the risk of non-payment by the borrower and other risks associated with people-to-people lending.

Does he include as P2P risks: the risk of Prosper going out of business in less than 3 years; or the risk that Prosper's loans will be found to be unregistered securities?  Somehow, I doubt it.

Quote
In general, as the credit quality of the borrower declines, the range of possible returns widens, requiring a larger risk premium to compensate the additional uncertainty. The amount of risk premium required to compensate for a given level of risk is a subjective judgment. The following formula is used by Prosper to determine if a listing is priced adequately to have an attractive risk adjusted return: Maximum Borrower Rate > Risk Free Rate1 + 3.25% + (Expected Annual Default * 1.5) + Prosper Servicing Fee. All lenders should make there [sic] own judgments with respect to what constitutes an adequately priced listing.

1 Risk Free Rate = 2-year CD national rate on BankRate.

Why in the world would Prosper choose the 2-year CD rate, considering that Prosper loans are 3-year loans (other than the obvious answer, that 3-year rates are higher)?  Similarly, why is Prosper multiplying the Expected Annual Default by 1.5, again considering that Prosper loans are 3 years?  And, of course, the biggest shennanigans in this whole calculation is the effect of Prosper's manipulation of the data in determining the Expected Annual Default without accounting for the $6.6M of Late-4's that should have already been defaulted, and the disappearance of the 66 NAT loans (which are all defaults in everything but name) from the data.

Lastly, although a minor point, you would think that when the CEO of the company posts on the official blog, that even if he doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their," that someone who does would proof-read his submission before posting. 
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

j9359

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
    • my blog
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 07:48:22 pm »

Does he include as P2P risks: the risk of Prosper going out of business in less than 3 years; or the risk that Prosper's loans will be found to be unregistered securities?  Somehow, I doubt it.
That would be part of the mysterious 3.25% in the equation :)
john.
Logged

onthefence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • Posts: 5736
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 09:28:06 pm »

Why in the world would Prosper choose the 2-year CD rate, considering that Prosper loans are 3-year loans

CDs are paid of in a lump sum at the end.
Prospers loans are supposedly paid off gradually over time for a declining balance (if they pay back).

What would be a better fit?
Logged
Lobby permission granted

onthefence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • Posts: 5736
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 09:38:08 pm »

OK.  We all have concerns about their estimated default data.

In terms of loan listing volume, EricsCC shows that raw volume is not at an all time high:
http://www.ericscc.com/stats/prosper-listing-volume

But credit grades AA-C listings ARE at an all time high ^see above chart link.
Logged
Lobby permission granted

ira01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-13252
  • Posts: 50506
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2008, 09:55:10 pm »

Why in the world would Prosper choose the 2-year CD rate, considering that Prosper loans are 3-year loans

CDs are paid of in a lump sum at the end.

You can elect to have the interest on a CD paid to you without penalty; you don't have to wait until the end to get it.  Moreover, you can elect to take all of your principal back at any time you want to on a CD; you just have to pay an interest penalty for doing so, usually 3 months interest. 
Logged
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

onthefence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-3
  • Posts: 5736
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2008, 11:18:39 pm »

You can elect to have the interest on a CD paid to you without penalty; you don't have to wait until the end to get it.  Moreover, you can elect to take all of your principal back at any time you want to on a CD; you just have to pay an interest penalty for doing so, usually 3 months interest. 

I'll accept that answer & keep it in mind for future comparison.
Logged
Lobby permission granted

patio11

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 04:00:22 am »

Prosper, you know I love you, but how many times do I have to say this:

100 basis points of default != the inverse of 100 basis points of returns 

Logged

NewHorizon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3914
    • View Profile
Re: Holy Pinocchio !!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2008, 10:08:01 am »

My comment:
Quote
Regarding "actual delinquency performance to date," are the loans that Mr. Fuller mentioned here
http://blog.prosper.com/2008/05/02/debt-sale-update/
considered delinquent for the purposes of this calculation?

... altho' I don't know why I bother.  Approval of the comment seems iffy at best.  And of course it's not like the original author of the blog post is actually going to respond.   :(

Well my post went up - but I think only after a newer blog post went up?
Anyway, I guess I'm pleasantly surprised a bit.
...even if it doesn't accomplish anything.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up