Print

[ira01]

The add says "rates as low as" I don't see that as being misleading. It says nothing about being an average loan rate. 

I disagree.  Under your logic, Prosper could advertise "Rates as low as 0.00%," since (as I noted in my OP) there have been three of those this year.  Would that be misleading?  Could Vanguard advertise "Invest in our mutual fund -- earn returns of as much as 1,000%" (which would probably be technically true if you invested the day before the largest run-up started and sold the day before it ended, and then annualized the return)?  Of course not.  It is well established that statements can be technically true yet still unlawfully misleading.

As I noted in the OP, I wouldn't care if Prosper advertised the median or mean rate for AA loans, IF it noted that was what it was doing.  But a big ad with a gigantic 8.68% (that font is easily the largest font on the page) with "as low as" printed in a size that's about 20 times smaller, in a color that doesn't stand out as much, and with no explanation anywhere of what that number signifies, is misleading IMHO.

[Urbi_et_Orbi]

Regardless, they need to document and disclose how they arrived at the rates they quote.  Based on the documentation, such as the dubious "Prosper Select Index," we can all make up our own minds (and inspect the platform performance data) regarding whether or not the claim is reasonable - or whether Prosper has been engaged in questionable retro-mining of data.

[God-Father]

Regardless, they need to document and disclose how they arrived at the rates they quote.  Based on the documentation, such as the dubious "Prosper Select Index," we can all make up our own minds (and inspect the platform performance data) regarding whether or not the claim is reasonable - or whether Prosper has been engaged in questionable retro-mining of data.

I disagree.  That is what the fine print is meant for.  I am a firm believer in Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).  If the buyer hears/reads something that is advertised in the fine print as a vague statement ("rate as low as"), then it is the buyer's obligation to investigate to determine exactly what it means to them.

For examples, a sign in front of a new community that says houses starting in the low 700s.  That only means that there is still one bad lot left that they can purchase a house with no amenities for less than 750K.  It does not mean that anyone has ever purchased a house or will purchase a house in that community for under 750K.

[BrassKnuckles]

god-father, jshorts, 1toolman

your secret is safe with me 

[aurel57]

The add says "rates as low as" I don't see that as being misleading. It says nothing about being an average loan rate. 

I disagree.  Under your logic, Prosper could advertise "Rates as low as 0.00%," since (as I noted in my OP) there have been three of those this year.  Would that be misleading?  Could Vanguard advertise "Invest in our mutual fund -- earn returns of as much as 1,000%" (which would probably be technically true if you invested the day before the largest run-up started and sold the day before it ended, and then annualized the return)?  Of course not.  It is well established that statements can be technically true yet still unlawfully misleading.

As I noted in the OP, I wouldn't care if Prosper advertised the median or mean rate for AA loans, IF it noted that was what it was doing.  But a big ad with a gigantic 8.68% (that font is easily the largest font on the page) with "as low as" printed in a size that's about 20 times smaller, in a color that doesn't stand out as much, and with no explanation anywhere of what that number signifies, is misleading IMHO.

Want to see some small print and not a color to ez to read.. http://www.hsbcdirect.com/1/2/1/mkt/premium-rate?code=PPYL9I0000&WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=HBUS_PPYL9I0000 I know its for interest on savings, but has some of the points that you find wrong with the Prosper loans ( the big one for me thats misleading its only good for about 20 days.. wow). Here is a ad for E Loan that looks like small payments until you read the fine print and then it gets scary.  http://www.eloan.com/s/show/home_equity_splash?context=equity&sid=cuXLSNRHheORAFu510XUxs7UghM&user=ggl&mcode=gglkw4u7t&vid=

[ira01]

Regardless, they need to document and disclose how they arrived at the rates they quote.  Based on the documentation, such as the dubious "Prosper Select Index," we can all make up our own minds (and inspect the platform performance data) regarding whether or not the claim is reasonable - or whether Prosper has been engaged in questionable retro-mining of data.

I disagree.  That is what the fine print is meant for.  I am a firm believer in Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).  If the buyer hears/reads something that is advertised in the fine print as a vague statement ("rate as low as"), then it is the buyer's obligation to investigate to determine exactly what it means to them.

Except that there IS NO SMALL PRINT.  Prosper makes its claim but provides NO explanation (small print or otherwise).

[ira01]

Want to see some small print and not a color to ez to read..

* * *

Here is a ad for E Loan that looks like small payments until you read the fine print and then it gets scary. 

Again, there IS NO SMALL PRINT in Prosper's ad.

[Gogmagog]

Here is a ad for E Loan that looks like small payments until you read the fine print and then it gets scary. 

Again, there IS NO SMALL PRINT in Prosper's ad.

Yes there is.  It is called Federal Trade Commission Dot Com Disclosures http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dotcom/index.shtml

The fine print doesn't have to be in the ad.  Prosper just has to be able to defend it against an official complaint with reasonable evidence to back up their claim.  If nobody files a complaint, then Prosper doesn't have to produce any numbers.

[Mark12547]

Yes there is.  It is called Federal Trade Commission Dot Com Disclosures http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dotcom/index.shtml

The fine print doesn't have to be in the ad.  Prosper just has to be able to defend it against an official complaint with reasonable evidence to back up their claim.  If nobody files a complaint, then Prosper doesn't have to produce any numbers.

Actually, the "fine print" (disclosure) must either be on the ad, or on a hyperlink that is conspicuous and well-labeled, or at least displayed before getting to the order page according to the ftc link you linked to.

[ira01]

Here is a ad for E Loan that looks like small payments until you read the fine print and then it gets scary. 

Again, there IS NO SMALL PRINT in Prosper's ad.

Yes there is.  It is called Federal Trade Commission Dot Com Disclosures http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dotcom/index.shtml

The fine print doesn't have to be in the ad.  Prosper just has to be able to defend it against an official complaint with reasonable evidence to back up their claim.  If nobody files a complaint, then Prosper doesn't have to produce any numbers.

First of all, the FTC's rules only apply to the federal FTC Act.  States, and in particular California (where Prosper is based) have different (and in some ways considerably stricter) requirements.

But looking briefly at the material you linked to, I didn't see anything supporting your contention that Prosper need not provide disclosures in the ad or on its website page displaying the ad.  To the contrary, your linked material specifically states:

The same consumer protection laws that apply to commercial activities in other media apply online. The FTC Act’s prohibition on "unfair or deceptive acts or practices" encompasses Internet advertising, marketing and sales. In addition, many Commission rules and guides are not limited to any particular medium used to disseminate claims or advertising, and therefore, apply to online activities.

Disclosures that are required to prevent an ad from being misleading, to ensure that consumers receive material information about the terms of a transaction or to further public policy goals, must be clear and conspicuous. In evaluating whether disclosures are likely to be clear and conspicuous in online ads, advertisers should consider the placement of the disclosure in an ad and its proximity to the relevant claim. Additional considerations include: the prominence of the disclosure; whether items in other parts of the ad distract attention from the disclosure; whether the ad is so lengthy that the disclosure needs to be repeated; whether disclosures in audio messages are presented in an adequate volume and cadence and visual disclosures appear for a sufficient duration; and, whether the language of the disclosure is understandable to the intended audience.

To make a disclosure clear and conspicuous, advertisers should:
Place disclosures near, and when possible, on the same screen as the triggering claim.
Use text or visual cues to encourage consumers to scroll down a Web page when it is necessary to view a disclosure.

When using hyperlinks to lead to disclosures,
make the link obvious;
label the hyperlink appropriately to convey the importance, nature and relevance of the information it leads to;
use hyperlink styles consistently so that consumers know when a link is available;
place the hyperlink near relevant information and make it noticeable;
take consumers directly to the disclosure on the click-through page;
assess the effectiveness of the hyperlink by monitoring click-through rates and make changes accordingly.

* * *
Advertisers must identify all express and implied claims that the ad conveys to consumers. When identifying claims, advertisers should not focus only on individual phrases or statements, but should consider the ad as a whole, including the text, product name and depictions. If an ad makes express or implied claims that are likely to be misleading without certain qualifying information, the information must be disclosed. Advertisers must determine which claims might need qualification and what information should be provided in a disclosure. If qualifying information is necessary to prevent an ad from being misleading, advertisers must present the information clearly and conspicuously.

[Gogmagog]

<snip> lots of stuff </snip>

The final arbiter of how misleading the ad is, and what level of disclosure it should have, is the FTC(or California Trade Commission).  File a complaint, CC Prosper's lawyers.  Nothing you say, with regard to the ad being misleading, matters unless it is backed up by action. 

[bamalucky]

Proof to people like Gog & NA is useless.They always blow facts off.Even when you disprove their spouts with their own links.

Gog is a mouthpiece for PMI just like he always has been.He came back to org to try to prop up Prosper because it's so obvious they are going down.

[Mtnchick]

Proof to people like Gog & NA is useless.They always blow facts off.Even when you disprove their spouts with their own links.

Gog is a mouthpiece for PMI just like he always has been.He came back to org to try to prop up Prosper because it's so obvious they are going down.

Gog is a borrower. More than he has in P----r IIRC, so P----r going completely down would make him a happy camper.

I'm a spits throw away from applying for a P-----r loan too so I can join in on the "get your money back the easy way" train

[Gogmagog]

Proof to people like Gog & NA is useless.They always blow facts off.Even when you disprove their spouts with their own links.

You didn't give proof.  Proof, in this context, is only relevant when evaluated by the proper authorities.  I'm not an advertising expert, so I don't know how fine they draw lines at the FTC.  The only way to find out, is to ACTUALLY give this information to the people who have the power to do something with it.  I'll give you a hint, they don't read prospers.org.  

Threads on .org only accomplish rabble rousing.  If the lynch mob stays home and posts, instead of taking real action, Prosper is right to ignore you.  

Gog is a mouthpiece for PMI just like he always has been.He came back to org to try to prop up Prosper because it's so obvious they are going down.

Prosper won't survive in its current incarnation.  If they don't diversify into other products they will eventually fold.  Even then, they might just need to become an extension of an existing bank in order to offer a full range of services.  

I have no interest in propping Prosper up.  I stick around because Prosper is kind of nifty and it doesn't really take up much time and energy.  Also, getting money out is kinda hard.

[Gogmagog]

Gog is a borrower. More than he has in P----r IIRC, so P----r going completely down would make him a happy camper.

I'm a spits throw away from applying for a P-----r loan too so I can join in on the "get your money back the easy way" train

Ahhh, if only it were that easy.  :-)