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Author Topic: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?  (Read 30208 times)

Tokyo Joe

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2008, 10:13:29 am »


I understand that you gulped the koolaid at Prosper Days, mhs505. 

That is unnecessary TJ and really below you. 

I am NOT talking about what they said they would do or not.  I agree that is what they said, and that there is a contract.    That doesnt mean that I think it is a good idea, or that they should continue to write their agreements that way. 

And it doesnt answer the question -- what is the industry standard?

1. I answered the question.  "Industry standard" doesnt matter.  Promises were made and not kept; bogus performance info continues to be advertised and published.

2. After watching you fight bama all over the boards, and reading your posts over the last few months, I think saying "you gulped the koolaid" is neither a low thing to say, nor a necessarily inaccurate thing to say.  You have a tendency to jump on anyone expressing negative sentiment, a tendency you didnt have before February.  I even had you on ignore for a while because of that.
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Beachey

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2008, 10:35:54 am »

<poof>

« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:21:38 am by Beachey »
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onthefence

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2008, 10:48:51 am »

Yep, and this is the opposite of the remainder problem DFuller spoke about at PD08.

If they wait another 3 months and package all the loans together, the newer loans will be worth less because they are bundled with the old near-worthless debt?  So the problem just becomes bigger and bigger.

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iLIE

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2008, 11:08:22 am »

Quote
The odds that anyone will make a payment is slim, and 98% will get no payments.

Its actually 12 payments collected from 1100+ loans.Thats somewhere in the 99% range.

Meanwhile 6.5 million in loans languish because they want more time because they got money out of 12.

Lets assume they lose 3% of value per month.

That would make this group of loans lose $6,500 per day in value,while we wait for them to collect on 12 loans.

ETA: I dumbed the math down so Prosper employees could understand it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 11:11:27 am by iLIE »
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onthefence

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2008, 11:22:24 am »

Its actually 12 payments collected from 1100+ loans.Thats somewhere in the 99% range.

Is that payments, or loans brought current.

If its loans brought current then they have the potential of hitting a over all return similar to a debt sale.
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iLIE

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2008, 11:25:57 am »

Its actually 12 payments collected from 1100+ loans.Thats somewhere in the 99% range.

Is that payments, or loans brought current.

If its loans brought current then they have the potential of hitting a over all return similar to a debt sale.
While not a large number, AmSher has secured payments from 12 accounts that were at 121+ days in approximately six weeks.
http://blog.prosper.com/2008/04/11/collections-update/
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Tokyo Joe

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2008, 11:27:04 am »

Its actually 12 payments collected from 1100+ loans.Thats somewhere in the 99% range.

Is that payments, or loans brought current.

If its loans brought current then they have the potential of hitting a over all return similar to a debt sale.
While not a large number, AmSher has secured payments from 12 accounts that were at 121+ days in approximately six weeks.
http://blog.prosper.com/2008/04/11/collections-update/

That sounds like a spinny way of stating "not necessarily brought current"
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iLIE

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2008, 11:29:13 am »

It also could mean they got $5 from each one too.

ETA: Doug is back looking around.

FraudMan      11:37:47 AM     Viewing the board index of Prospers.ORG Prosper Forum.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 11:43:04 am by iLIE »
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iLIE

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2008, 11:46:06 am »

Id like to go on record as saying we really cant blame Doug Fuller because hes late to the game.

I doubt he thinks prosper lending is even a good idea.Hes just trying to do a job he was hired in for.

Id hate to get hired in & be put in charge of this mess with expectations of being able to clean it up.
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Mtnchick

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2008, 12:05:12 pm »

Well, heres what I think, fwiw, after reading all this.

1. Propsers bad loans sure must have the reputation of being junk.  I love the spin they put on this: Prosper received a record number of bids on the sale file (eight).   Whoopie, way to go Prosper.  ::)

2. As far as Prospers junk goes, this is probably the "best" load of junk they ever had for sale; the average loan has a higher credit grade now than it did 2 years ago.

3. Nonetheless, even Prosper is forced to admit that the offers are utter crap.

4. If nobody wants to buy this load of junk, it seems likely that nobody will want the next load of junk either...


So: should they have sold to the highest bidder for peanuts?

Add my vote to the "of course" pile.  The money is gone; lets clear it off the books.

By not selling it, Prosper is keeping their own figures inflated and misleading, and that bothers me more than getting 1 cent on the dollar.


In other words, bama is 100% right.


The advertising has bugged me for a long time, and if the ads arent changed following ths debacle, I find it very tempting to lodge a complaint with the SEC and the FTC for blatantly dishonest and misleading advertising, mishandling of "securities", and failure to meet minimal standards of fidiciary duty.

This whole thing is BS.  If they cant sell the junk, then they need to say so explicity.  Not bury it in fine print, not skip mentioning it at all...

Holding onto these loans is not going to do any good whatsoever.  The odds that anyone will make a payment is slim, and 98% will get no payments.

Sell them, close the books on them, note it in the performance data (by including a "sold" column-- I think the performance tab is misleading enough as it is that it merits a complaint to the SEC/FTC regardless of whether the loans are sold or not).

Ive had about enough of Prospers mealymouthed sunshine and lollipops in the face of incompetency and duplicity.

If Prosper is unable to sell, and unwilling to admit this in their performance record and performance projections, then how are they better than any other ripoff artist on the internet?

+1 Very well put.
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christoofar215

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2008, 12:14:41 pm »

Prosper might be doing other P2P lenders a favor (or those that pop up in the future) if P2P lenders pool their systems together on pre-screening.

i.e.; default on any of the P2Ps, and your Social Security Number plus your bank account number is banned from the whole universe of P2P lending for life--unless of course you pay up on the old default.

Since the deadbeats are flocking to Prosper, who knows; by the time the ship does sink the most valuable jewel might be Prospers internal database of borrower defaults.


ETA: my engrish sucks
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 12:26:32 pm by christoofar215 »
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onthefence

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2008, 12:18:38 pm »

Prosper might be doing other P2P lenders that pop up in the future if P2P lenders pool their systems together on pre-screening.

Well since webbank is originating loans for both prosper & lendingclub, I see no reason why this should not occur.
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Beachey

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2008, 12:22:02 pm »

<poof>
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 08:55:49 am by Beachey »
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Mtnchick

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2008, 12:24:14 pm »

Prosper might be doing other P2P lenders that pop up in the future if P2P lenders pool their systems together on pre-screening.

i.e.; default on any of the P2Ps, and your Social Security Number plus your bank account number is banned from P2P lending for life--unless of course you pay up on the old default.

Since the deadbeats are flocking to Prosper, who knows; by the time the ship does sink the most valuable jewel might be Prospers internal database of borrower defaults.

P-----r needs to actually DO some pre-screening. Either in this thread or another, I stated as lenders that at the very minimum we should know what verification was performed for defaulted loans (of course, P-----r looks like theyre getting around that by not having any "defaulted" loans - they just live in 4+ month late hell for life........)
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DakotahFury

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Re: Debt sale cancelled? Sucks or what?
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2008, 12:29:09 pm »

So...now Doug Fuller and PMI are making investment decisions on behalf of their customers without prior consultation/consent? It would appear so, since they are making the decision on whether to sell or hold in an attempt to maximize ROI, which could quite possibly backfire...damaging both PMI and lenders in the process.

PMI is to provide the platform in which lenders make transactions...and to put in place the process that these debt sales are taken care of. There should be no ambiguity or "timing" involved.

I believe PMI has crossed a dangerous line with this move, because this now sounds an awful lot like a mutual fund. In a MF, the fund manager decides whether or not to sell or hold an underperformer. The difference, of course, is that mutual funds are governed by SEC regulations which mandate a certain level of transparity and truth-in-advertising. Prosper wont play by those rules...so they should not be trying to play that game!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 12:30:47 pm by DakotahFury »
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